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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

How did she know?

  • Avatar of dark_aquatus

    dark_aquatus

    [1]May 7, 2008
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    Since we have nothing better to do then talk and speculate for the next 2 months *snif* I guess I'll just tell you guys what's bothering me for a while now.

    In The Crossroads of Destiny, Zuko had to chose between saving Aang or letting him die, and he chose to let him die by his sisters hand. If not for the Spirit Water, Aang would've been dead right now. If Aang would've been dead without the Spirit Water, which he would have been, since he said that Katara literally saved his life cause he was ''gone'', how the hell could Azula know all along that he was alive (and I'm talking about the time that Zuko spend in his palace at his fathers right hand). We all know that Azula wants her brother down on his knees, and giving him the ''honor'' for killing the avatar would've helped her with that, cause when people would find out that the avatar was alive after all, they would crucify Zuko.

    Many of you would say that the Dai Lee were spying on Zuko and Katara when they were talking about the water after being thrown in the underground prison at Ba Sing Se, but I don't think that Azula would think that this ''spiritual water'', which might heal a scar, would be able to save someone's life by bringing someone back from the dead. You shouldn't forget that all she would have heard, if she DID send some Dai Lee agents over there to spy on them, was that this special water had a small chance of healing Zuko's scar... I guess it's needless to say that there's a pretty big difference between healing a scar and bringing someone back from the dead.

    What do you guys think?

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  • Avatar of TheFungusyOne

    TheFungusyOne

    [2]May 7, 2008
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    Azula knew because she questioned Zuko. Because Zuko knew that Katara was likely to save Aang with the water from the Spirit Oasis, Azula could tell something was wrong, because she's just awesome like that.

    Also:

    It never states anywhere that Azula actually knew for sure. During the invasion, she said something along the lines of, "So, you're alive after all. I had a feeling you'd survived." All she knew for sure was that there'd be an invasion during the solar eclipse.
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  • Avatar of dark_aquatus

    dark_aquatus

    [3]May 7, 2008
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    She did know for sure cause she wouldn't take the huge risc of actually HELPING her brother. Like i said before, she wants him down on his knees to be humiliated even more. By giving him the honor of killing the avatar, it became clear she knew for 100% (or at least 95%) that the avatar is alive. When Zuko wakes her up in the middle of the night after his little chat with his father to ask her why she gave him the honor, u can clearly see on her face that she's aware that the avatar is alive.
    Like i said, she won't take the risc of helping Zuko based on a presumption.
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  • Avatar of TheFungusyOne

    TheFungusyOne

    [4]May 7, 2008
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    Ah, but what Azula isn't telling anyone is that she can read minds *nods*
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  • Avatar of Coolcamz18

    Coolcamz18

    [5]May 7, 2008
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    TheFungusyOne wrote:
    Azula knew because she questioned Zuko. Because Zuko knew that Katara was likely to save Aang with the water from the Spirit Oasis, Azula could tell something was wrong, because she's just awesome like that.

    Also:

    It never states anywhere that Azula actually knew for sure. During the invasion, she said something along the lines of, "So, you're alive after all. I had a feeling you'd survived." All she knew for sure was that there'd be an invasion during the solar eclipse.
    I agree, she just know the right words to say and what to do.
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  • Avatar of JRG11

    JRG11

    [6]May 7, 2008
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    Because she's magical. No, seriously, this sounds about right to me:

    TheFungusyOne wrote:
    Azula knew because she questioned Zuko. Because Zuko knew that Katara was likely to save Aang with the water from the Spirit Oasis, Azula could tell something was wrong, because she's just awesome like that. Also: It never states anywhere that Azula actually knew for sure. During the invasion, she said something along the lines of, "So, you're alive after all. I had a feeling you'd survived." All she knew for sure was that there'd be an invasion during the solar eclipse.


    (spoiler from BR)

    If you remember from BR (and other similar events in other episodes), Azula knew that the guy that they had in that ice cell did not help with the escape plan. "I'm a people's person" she said. Azula like TheFungusyOne said, knew something was up when she talked to Zuko... that he was unsure. And that spit of doubt was all she needed because that plus the fact that Aang is the Avatar, is good enough to be pretty sure he's still alive.

    But I questioned the same exact thing at first too.

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  • Avatar of o0Navras0o

    o0Navras0o

    [7]May 7, 2008
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    Because she's a people person.

    Lol, just kidding. I think Azula was pretty sure that the Avatar was dead in "The Awakening": "who cares the Avatar's dead".

    But after seeing his unsure expression, it was obvious his insecurity had a reason which was enough to make her think.

    Also when she first talks to him, he felt bad because he could only return to the Fire Nation when he captured the Avatar, and he came back empty-handed.

    After this chat he talks to his father, and then his daddy congratulates him for killing the Avatar, which makes me think Azula told him Zuko killed Aang after she talked to her brother and saw his insecurity.
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  • Avatar of SgtHydra

    SgtHydra

    [8]May 7, 2008
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    How did Azula know?

    Has anyone seen Zuko's poker face?

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  • Avatar of Pendragon_

    Pendragon_

    [9]May 7, 2008
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    You have all made good points about how she could have reasoned it out from Zuko's lingering doubts but arn't you also forgetting that all along they had no body?

    She knew full well that thanks to Iroh, Katara was able to escape with Aang's body so whilst she might reasonably assume her direct hit with a lightning bolt should have killed him, without a body she had to entertain the possibility that it wasn't quite that clear cut or somehow they might save either through healing or some hitherto unknown avatar ability that makes him harder to kill.


    Don't forget she also lied to the Fire Lord and told him it was Zuko that dealt the killing blow, why would she do this unless she suspected he might have survived or as a means to control Zuko (assuming it was more than just sisterly love as she claimed).

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  • Avatar of dark_aquatus

    dark_aquatus

    [10]May 7, 2008
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    Ofcourse she knew the avatar was alive... that's my entire point! How the hell did she KNOW? Like i said before, Azula won't take the risc of helping Zuko based on a presumption. Especially not when it involves lying to the Fire Lord! I mean, you could get killed for doing that (although her father wouldn't kill her for doing so). Anyway, my point is that Azula should've been completely sure before taking these pretty big riscs, and you cant convince me she was 100% sure because Zuko had an 'unsure expression' on his face. Also, Azula gave Aang a DEADLY blow. She did it her self and she knew it wasn't something that anyone could heal. It turned out she was right, since the avatar died! Ofcourse Katara had some magical spiritual mineral water thingy which kinda revived him, but she didnt know that (at that moment).

    One more thing, she did know that he's the avatar, but she watched how he died with her own eyes! No weird spiritual avatar state magic power or anything like it, he just died. And when you're dead, you can't do anything. I guess she's smart enough to understand that...
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  • Avatar of thewerewolfmage

    thewerewolfmage

    [11]May 7, 2008
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    Pendragon_ wrote:

    You have all made good points about how she could have reasoned it out from Zuko's lingering doubts but arn't you also forgetting that all along they had no body?

    She knew full well that thanks to Iroh, Katara was able to escape with Aang's body so whilst she might reasonably assume her direct hit with a lightning bolt should have killed him, without a body she had to entertain the possibility that it wasn't quite that clear cut or somehow they might save either through healing or some hitherto unknown avatar ability that makes him harder to kill.


    Don't forget she also lied to the Fire Lord and told him it was Zuko that dealt the killing blow, why would she do this unless she suspected he might have survived or as a means to control Zuko (assuming it was more than just sisterly love as she claimed).

    That's a good point. Without a body, there's no solid proof.

    I had always assumed she figured to put the blame on Zuko just in case he wound up alive to save her own hide. I don't know why exactly she would assume he's alive but I don't think they had anyone monitoring the Water Tribe babies and and as soon as she hit Aang, one was born.

    That brings up something else. If Aang died, was a Water Tribe Avatar born right then and there? Or not? Was it born as the Avatar then when Katara pulled Aang back, did it just remain a regular baby?

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  • Avatar of dark_aquatus

    dark_aquatus

    [12]May 7, 2008
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    Dang! That's a really good question, but we can only speculate about this cause we don't know how these things work (especially since it's fiction, lol). I guess it takes a couple of months before a new avatar would be born... But like I said, that's just a guess.
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  • Avatar of Miroku78

    Miroku78

    [13]May 7, 2008
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    Because Azula's always 5 steps ahead of every friggin person in Avatar. (It showed a lot in Day of The Black Sun) And also because of certain snitches. (Dai-li)
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  • Avatar of LeonMorado

    LeonMorado

    [14]May 7, 2008
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    she didn't know. she just suspected and kept her bases covered. next question.
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  • Avatar of Jancro-Liva

    Jancro-Liva

    [15]May 7, 2008
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    dark_aquatus wrote:
    By giving him the honor of killing the avatar, it became clear she knew for 100%

    Or she knows he could have been alive, and didn't want tot risk her ststus with her daddy...

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  • Avatar of WiseLad

    WiseLad

    [16]May 7, 2008
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    dark_aquatus wrote:
    Dang! That's a really good question, but we can only speculate about this cause we don't know how these things work (especially since it's fiction, lol). I guess it takes a couple of months before a new avatar would be born... But like I said, that's just a guess.
    takes a few hours(if not a few days)as the avatar spirit decides which newborn to select as its host

    each avatar is a combination of the person with the avatar spirit
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  • Avatar of Absarroth

    Absarroth

    [17]May 7, 2008
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    I don't think she knew exactly. I think she just suspected it.

    She could have known through two ways or both. Since Zuko suspected that Aang was alive, she may have read this of him. Or she's just paranoid and decided to give Zuko that honour, just in case. Or like I said both.

    Even if Aaang had died, I still think she would still put that plan into actions. Probably because Azula doesn't like taking chances. She's always sure.

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  • Avatar of dark_aquatus

    dark_aquatus

    [18]May 7, 2008
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    Jancro-Liva wrote:

    dark_aquatus wrote:
    By giving him the honor of killing the avatar, it became clear she knew for 100%

    Or she knows he could have been alive, and didn't want tot risk her ststus with her daddy...



    Ye, but by doing so, she risked giving Zuko back his honor and his future throne, and Azula really doesn't want her brother on the throne when he's older. Think about it, by telling her father about her killing the avatar, she risks being crucified when it turns out the avatar is alive. But if she tells her father that Zuko killed the avatar, she risks her brother getting eternal glory and honor and the future throne.
    Both of them are pretty big risks, and like absarroth said, she doesn't like taking chances, she's always sure.

    So when she DID tell her father about Zuko killing the avatar, she obviously WASN'T taking a risk, cause she KNEW the avatar was alive.
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  • Avatar of LeonMorado

    LeonMorado

    [19]May 7, 2008
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    dark_aquatus wrote:
    Jancro-Liva wrote:

    dark_aquatus wrote:
    By giving him the honor of killing the avatar, it became clear she knew for 100%

    Or she knows he could have been alive, and didn't want tot risk her ststus with her daddy...



    Ye, but by doing so, she risked giving Zuko back his honor and his future throne, and Azula really doesn't want her brother on the throne when he's older. Think about it, by telling her father about her killing the avatar, she risks being crucified when it turns out the avatar is alive. But if she tells her father that Zuko killed the avatar, she risks her brother getting eternal glory and honor and the future throne.
    Both of them are pretty big risks, and like absarroth said, she doesn't like taking chances, she's always sure.

    So when she DID tell her father about Zuko killing the avatar, she obviously WASN'T taking a risk, cause she KNEW the avatar was alive.
    had zuko taken the throne she could have easily taken control from him. he was easy to manipulate. it wasn't a risk. she didn't know, she just had her bases covered.
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  • Avatar of dark_aquatus

    dark_aquatus

    [20]May 7, 2008
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    LeonMorado wrote:
    dark_aquatus wrote:
    Jancro-Liva wrote:

    dark_aquatus wrote:
    By giving him the honor of killing the avatar, it became clear she knew for 100%

    Or she knows he could have been alive, and didn't want tot risk her ststus with her daddy...



    Ye, but by doing so, she risked giving Zuko back his honor and his future throne, and Azula really doesn't want her brother on the throne when he's older. Think about it, by telling her father about her killing the avatar, she risks being crucified when it turns out the avatar is alive. But if she tells her father that Zuko killed the avatar, she risks her brother getting eternal glory and honor and the future throne.
    Both of them are pretty big risks, and like absarroth said, she doesn't like taking chances, she's always sure.

    So when she DID tell her father about Zuko killing the avatar, she obviously WASN'T taking a risk, cause she KNEW the avatar was alive.
    had zuko taken the throne she could have easily taken control from him. he was easy to manipulate. it wasn't a risk. she didn't know, she just had her bases covered.


    Indeed, he WAS easy to manipulate. She said it herself, she's a 'people-person' which means she should've seen the transformation of Zuko. He's not the weak easily manipulated person anymore. Trusting on the fact that she could easily manipulate him when he got the throne and control him AND the nation that way, would've been a major mistake. I'm sorry, but I hardly see any 'base covering' in that :/
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