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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

zuko's mom might teach aang how to firebend

  • Avatar of Airawende

    Airawende

    [41]Aug 11, 2006
    • member since: 06/26/05
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    Since it's midnight and I don't feel like getting into an argument,?? I'll just say this...how do you know Azulon was not a bloodthirsty killer. We saw him is ONE episode, and he said maybe 3 lines. Not the kind of info to make assumptions on.??If you're saying a mother wouldn't kill a dog if it had it's child in it's teeth, and it had the intentions of killing the child, you obviously don't know how mothers can get.

    Think about it "hmm, this vicious dog is slaughtering my child, but killing it would be wrong"

    I'm using the word dog in place of Azulon.

    Using the dog attack example to my own advantage, My sister was attacked by a german shepard. He had her by almost the eye. You should have seen my mother! The only reason that dog lived was because he could run faster. had he been asleep, she??would ??have been????able to do it.

    What makes you think poison is so blatantly obvious? Perhaps she slipped in his mouth while he slept. Drinks arent the only way to poison!

    And the most MAJOR thing you are forgetting is this

    "You must know the pain of losing a first born son"

    Son does not equal wife! Azulon wanted Ozai to know that pain! They are not by any means the same pain! Zuko is Ozai's flesh and blood. It's not the same at all, and I don't believe Azulon would have accepted??Ursa??in his stead.

    Edited on 08/11/2006 9:40pm
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  • Avatar of Airawende

    Airawende

    [42]Aug 11, 2006
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    And you can't really compare me killing someone, to Ursa doing it. I have no child, and no reason to do so. But, theoretically, if I had a child right now, and someone said my child had to be killed, then yes, I completely see myself killing them.
    Edited on 08/11/2006 9:45pm
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  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [43]Aug 11, 2006
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    Man NBP get's scary when it comes to debate who knew she'd care that much about logic I'm the same way if I wasn't so lazy then I'll use my genious-ness but that won't happen.
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  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [44]Aug 11, 2006
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    [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
    Edited on 08/11/2006 9:52pm
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  • Avatar of neverbeenpinker

    neverbeenpinker

    [45]Aug 11, 2006
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    Airawende wrote:

    Since it's midnight and I don't feel like getting into an argument,?? I'll just say this...how do you know Azulon was not a bloodthirsty killer. We saw him is ONE episode, and he said maybe 3 lines. Not the kind of info to make assumptions on.??If you're saying a mother wouldn't kill a dog if it had it's child in it's teeth, and it had the intentions of killing the child, you obviously don't know how mothers can get.

    Think about it "hmm, this vicious dog is slaughtering my child, but killing it would be wrong"

    I'm using the word dog in place of Azulon.

    Using the dog attack example to my own advantage, My sister was attacked by a german shepard. He had her by almost the eye. You should have seen my mother! The only reason that dog lived was because he could run faster. had he been asleep, she??would ??have been????able to do it.

    What makes you think poison is so blatantly obvious? Perhaps she slipped in his mouth while he slept. Drinks arent the only way to poison!

    And the most MAJOR thing you are forgetting is this

    "You must know the pain of losing a first born son"

    Son does not equal wife! Azulon wanted Ozai to know that pain! They are not by any means the same pain! Zuko is Ozai's flesh and blood. It's not the same at all, and I don't believe Azulon would have accepted??Ursa??in his stead.

    My whole argument is Ursa killed him, not Ozai. I don't know where in my argument you got that from. I just think he may have majorly benifited from it.



    okay, maybe the dog metaphor was a little off, since killing an animal maybe be easier than killing a human, and true, drnks aren't the only way to poison someone, but i still don't get how azulon was murdered and gave the throne to ozai when less then 24 hours before he had just got through telling ozai that there wasn't a chance in hell he was getting that throne.

    and you only knew azulon for an episode too! how do you know he was a bloodthirsty killer? i am going off what i see. the fact that he sympathizes with iroh shows that he has some kind of twisted version of a heart, so he wouldn't kill both zuko and ursa just to spite ozai when he said he was only taking one. and i disagree. i mean, yeah, son and wife aren't the same thing, but if you asked a father "who do you love more, your wife or your son?" you think he'd be able to tell you? i think ozai, being ozai, didn't love either of them too much, but if i had to choose, i'd say he loved zuko less. it's not that he loved ursa more, just zuko less.

    i think ozai killed him. because if ursa killed him and ozai had the power to make it look like he died of natural causes then ursa would have had no reason to run.

    unless she was going to die because she was sacrificing herself in zuko's place!

    although my theory still doesn't explain why azulon happened to die that same night. i mean, if ozai was going to kill him then why wait until after his wife had bitten the dust?

    gah! this doesn't make any sense!

    but i got the bad feeling that maybe we were suppose to figure this out already by just guessing, like it was uppose to be obvious and we just didn't get something.

    my head hurts. it's my last weekend before school. i shouldn't be thinking!
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  • Avatar of neverbeenpinker

    neverbeenpinker

    [46]Aug 11, 2006
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    Airawende wrote:
    And you can't really compare me killing someone, to Ursa doing it. I have no child, and no reason to do so. But, theoretically, if I had a child right now, and someone said my child had to be killed, then yes, I completely see myself killing them.


    okay, i can totally see myself killing someone for the sake of my child but not if there was another way.
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  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [47]Aug 11, 2006
    • member since: 05/15/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
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    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Airawende wrote:

    Since it's midnight and I don't feel like getting into an argument,?? I'll just say this...how do you know Azulon was not a bloodthirsty killer. We saw him is ONE episode, and he said maybe 3 lines. Not the kind of info to make assumptions on.??If you're saying a mother wouldn't kill a dog if it had it's child in it's teeth, and it had the intentions of killing the child, you obviously don't know how mothers can get.

    Think about it "hmm, this vicious dog is slaughtering my child, but killing it would be wrong"

    I'm using the word dog in place of Azulon.

    Using the dog attack example to my own advantage, My sister was attacked by a german shepard. He had her by almost the eye. You should have seen my mother! The only reason that dog lived was because he could run faster. had he been asleep, she??would ??have been????able to do it.

    What makes you think poison is so blatantly obvious? Perhaps she slipped in his mouth while he slept. Drinks arent the only way to poison!

    And the most MAJOR thing you are forgetting is this

    "You must know the pain of losing a first born son"

    Son does not equal wife! Azulon wanted Ozai to know that pain! They are not by any means the same pain! Zuko is Ozai's flesh and blood. It's not the same at all, and I don't believe Azulon would have accepted??Ursa??in his stead.

    My whole argument is Ursa killed him, not Ozai. I don't know where in my argument you got that from. I just think he may have majorly benifited from it.

    okay, maybe the dog metaphor was a little off, since killing an animal maybe be easier than killing a human, and true, drnks aren't the only way to poison someone, but i still don't get how azulon was murdered and gave the throne to ozai when less then 24 hours before he had just got through telling ozai that there wasn't a chance in hell he was getting that throne. and you only knew azulon for an episode too! how do you know he was a bloodthirsty killer? i am going off what i see. the fact that he sympathizes with iroh shows that he has some kind of twisted version of a heart, so he wouldn't kill both zuko and ursa just to spite ozai when he said he was only taking one. and i disagree. i mean, yeah, son and wife aren't the same thing, but if you asked a father "who do you love more, your wife or your son?" you think he'd be able to tell you? i think ozai, being ozai, didn't love either of them too much, but if i had to choose, i'd say he loved zuko less. it's not that he loved ursa more, just zuko less. i think ozai killed him. because if ursa killed him and ozai had the power to make it look like he died of natural causes then ursa would have had no reason to run. unless she was going to die because she was sacrificing herself in zuko's place! although my theory still doesn't explain why azulon happened to die that same night. i mean, if ozai was going to kill him then why wait until after his wife had bitten the dust? gah! this doesn't make any sense! but i got the bad feeling that maybe we were suppose to figure this out already by just guessing, like it was uppose to be obvious and we just didn't get something. my head hurts. it's my last weekend before school. i shouldn't be thinking!

    Poor you................well anyway this mystery is to hard I'm mostly thinking Ursa killed Azulon and made sure Zuko had saftey whic didn't go according o plan well we need more information there was that veil/hood thing which means she sacrafised herself but then we have Azula carring a knife ack I'm hurting my mind (crashes to the floor in pain)

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  • Avatar of earthbender623

    earthbender623

    [48]Aug 11, 2006
    • member since: 08/05/06
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    I have contemplated over this for many an hour and nothing seems to match up. I shouldn't be thinking like this hard when school is so close. I shouldn't have to think yet
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  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [49]Aug 11, 2006
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    Well I'm already gonna suffer I'm in so much stress when school is in play.
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  • Avatar of earthbender623

    earthbender623

    [50]Aug 11, 2006
    • member since: 08/05/06
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    I know, this year I have four Advanced Placement classes. I also run X-country, but I don't think I am going to run much this year.
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  • Avatar of Hoshie26

    Hoshie26

    [51]Aug 12, 2006
    • member since: 07/27/06
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    Ok.I dont know if any one knew this but if done right chkoking can kill with out leaving a mark.I think Ursa learned from Azula that Zuko was going to die so she killed Azulon in his sleep.Perhaps Ozai would kill Zuko anyways but Ursa said she would tell that iroh is suppose to get the throne and not him so he did not kill him.but she would get in the way to much so she had to go.There was no worry she would betray the FN because she respected the FN and she wanted her son to be safe and she would be killed if she revealed who she was and if she taught Aang to firebend then it would be for safety for her son and maby Iroh.you know how the will be killed if they do not find safty sone.but I dont know.and Zuko has to find out so we did not miss any thing.
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    Hoshie26

    [52]Aug 12, 2006
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    I am thinking alot about this when scool starts and I will be thrown place to place so I will not be home alone after school.Need break.
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  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [53]Aug 12, 2006
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    Well the bad thing is Ursa did her best to protect Zuko and now it's in vain.
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  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [54]Aug 12, 2006
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    Well the bad thing is Ursa did her best to protect Zuko and now it's in vain.
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    neverbeenpinker

    [55]Aug 12, 2006
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    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    And you can't really compare me killing someone, to Ursa doing it. I have no child, and no reason to do so. But, theoretically, if I had a child right now, and someone said my child had to be killed, then yes, I completely see myself killing them.


    okay, i can totally see myself killing someone for the sake of my child but not if there was another way.


    especially if that someone was family. can you see yourself killing family to protect your son when he is heavily guarded at all times and there's another way to save him?

    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    Well the bad thing is Ursa did her best to protect Zuko and now it's in vain.


    yeah, but at least he's alive.
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  • Avatar of Airawende

    Airawende

    [56]Aug 12, 2006
    • member since: 06/26/05
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    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    And you can't really compare me killing someone, to Ursa doing it. I have no child, and no reason to do so. But, theoretically, if I had a child right now, and someone said my child had to be killed, then yes, I completely see myself killing them.
    okay, i can totally see myself killing someone for the sake of my child but not if there was another way.
    especially if that someone was family. can you see yourself killing family to protect your son when he is heavily guarded at all times and there's another way to save him?
    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    Well the bad thing is Ursa did her best to protect Zuko and now it's in vain.
    yeah, but at least he's alive.

    She's not a blood relative of Azulon, only by marriage are they related. I do not see sacrificing yourself as another option. I was actually talking to my mother about this today, I asked her what she would do. She said mothers will ALWAYS do anything to protect thier child. Even if it is something uncharactistic. You see, there is a phenominon associated with mothers when their children are in danger. The adrenaline gives them to ability to do almost anything to save the child. If it meant killing someone, so be it. I believe she has more love for her son, her own flesh, who was born of her body, than for a man who she is related to only by marriage, who can so easily order her son dead. Sure, she would be remorseful, but in the end, she did what she had to to keep her son alive.

    And also, when she was leaving at the end, she was wearing a traveler's cloak, and put the hood up over her head. To me, she looked like she was going somewhere, and in a rush!

    Edited on 08/12/2006 7:52pm
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  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [57]Aug 12, 2006
    • member since: 05/15/06
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    Airawende wrote:

    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    And you can't really compare me killing someone, to Ursa doing it. I have no child, and no reason to do so. But, theoretically, if I had a child right now, and someone said my child had to be killed, then yes, I completely see myself killing them.
    okay, i can totally see myself killing someone for the sake of my child but not if there was another way.
    especially if that someone was family. can you see yourself killing family to protect your son when he is heavily guarded at all times and there's another way to save him?
    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    Well the bad thing is Ursa did her best to protect Zuko and now it's in vain.
    yeah, but at least he's alive.

    She's not a blood relative of Azulon, only by marriage are they related. I do not see sacrificing yourself as another option. I was actually talking to my mother about this today, I asked her what she would do. She said mothers will ALWAYS do anything to protect thier child. Even if it is something uncharactistic. You see, there is a phenominon associated with mothers when their children are in danger. The adrenaline gives them to ability to do almost anything to save the child. If it meant killing someone, so be it. I believe she has more love for her son, her own flesh, who was born of her body, than for a man who she is related to only by marriage, who can so easily order her son dead. Sure, she would be remorseful, but in the end, she did what she had to to keep her son alive.

    And also, when she was leaving at the end, she was wearing a traveler's cloak, and put the hood up over her head. To me, she looked like she was going somewhere, and in a rush!

    Well in Asain culture doing that means you're sacrafising you're self or it's probably her wedding gown and she'll be buried in her gown.

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  • Avatar of Airawende

    Airawende

    [58]Aug 12, 2006
    • member since: 06/26/05
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    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    Airawende wrote:

    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    And you can't really compare me killing someone, to Ursa doing it. I have no child, and no reason to do so. But, theoretically, if I had a child right now, and someone said my child had to be killed, then yes, I completely see myself killing them.
    okay, i can totally see myself killing someone for the sake of my child but not if there was another way.
    especially if that someone was family. can you see yourself killing family to protect your son when he is heavily guarded at all times and there's another way to save him?
    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    Well the bad thing is Ursa did her best to protect Zuko and now it's in vain.
    yeah, but at least he's alive.

    She's not a blood relative of Azulon, only by marriage are they related. I do not see sacrificing yourself as another option. I was actually talking to my mother about this today, I asked her what she would do. She said mothers will ALWAYS do anything to protect thier child. Even if it is something uncharactistic. You see, there is a phenominon associated with mothers when their children are in danger. The adrenaline gives them to ability to do almost anything to save the child. If it meant killing someone, so be it. I believe she has more love for her son, her own flesh, who was born of her body, than for a man who she is related to only by marriage, who can so easily order her son dead. Sure, she would be remorseful, but in the end, she did what she had to to keep her son alive.

    And also, when she was leaving at the end, she was wearing a traveler's cloak, and put the hood up over her head. To me, she looked like she was going somewhere, and in a rush!

    Well in Asain culture doing that means you're sacrafising you're self or it's probably her wedding gown and she'll be buried in her gown.

    Definatly not a wedding gown. I was trying to find a good picture, but couldn't. I was just a plain cloak over the clothes she was wearing the entire episode. Why would someone wear a traveling??cloak to an execution?

    Edited on 08/12/2006 8:04pm
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  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [59]Aug 12, 2006
    • member since: 05/15/06
    • level: 12
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    Airawende wrote:
    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    Airawende wrote:

    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    And you can't really compare me killing someone, to Ursa doing it. I have no child, and no reason to do so. But, theoretically, if I had a child right now, and someone said my child had to be killed, then yes, I completely see myself killing them.
    okay, i can totally see myself killing someone for the sake of my child but not if there was another way.
    especially if that someone was family. can you see yourself killing family to protect your son when he is heavily guarded at all times and there's another way to save him?
    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    Well the bad thing is Ursa did her best to protect Zuko and now it's in vain.
    yeah, but at least he's alive.

    She's not a blood relative of Azulon, only by marriage are they related. I do not see sacrificing yourself as another option. I was actually talking to my mother about this today, I asked her what she would do. She said mothers will ALWAYS do anything to protect thier child. Even if it is something uncharactistic. You see, there is a phenominon associated with mothers when their children are in danger. The adrenaline gives them to ability to do almost anything to save the child. If it meant killing someone, so be it. I believe she has more love for her son, her own flesh, who was born of her body, than for a man who she is related to only by marriage, who can so easily order her son dead. Sure, she would be remorseful, but in the end, she did what she had to to keep her son alive.

    And also, when she was leaving at the end, she was wearing a traveler's cloak, and put the hood up over her head. To me, she looked like she was going somewhere, and in a rush!

    Well in Asain culture doing that means you're sacrafising you're self or it's probably her wedding gown and she'll be buried in her gown.

    Definatly not a wedding gown. I was trying to find a good picture, but couldn't. I was just a plain cloak over the clothes she was wearing the entire episode. Why would someone wear a traveling??cloak to an execution?

    Well it's FN fashion we don't know

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  • Avatar of Airawende

    Airawende

    [60]Aug 12, 2006
    • member since: 06/26/05
    • level: 6
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    • posts: 1,626
    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    Airawende wrote:

    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    And you can't really compare me killing someone, to Ursa doing it. I have no child, and no reason to do so. But, theoretically, if I had a child right now, and someone said my child had to be killed, then yes, I completely see myself killing them.
    okay, i can totally see myself killing someone for the sake of my child but not if there was another way.
    especially if that someone was family. can you see yourself killing family to protect your son when he is heavily guarded at all times and there's another way to save him?
    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    Well the bad thing is Ursa did her best to protect Zuko and now it's in vain.
    yeah, but at least he's alive.

    She's not a blood relative of Azulon, only by marriage are they related. I do not see sacrificing yourself as another option. I was actually talking to my mother about this today, I asked her what she would do. She said mothers will ALWAYS do anything to protect thier child. Even if it is something uncharactistic. You see, there is a phenominon associated with mothers when their children are in danger. The adrenaline gives them to ability to do almost anything to save the child. If it meant killing someone, so be it. I believe she has more love for her son, her own flesh, who was born of her body, than for a man who she is related to only by marriage, who can so easily order her son dead. Sure, she would be remorseful, but in the end, she did what she had to to keep her son alive.

    And also, when she was leaving at the end, she was wearing a traveler's cloak, and put the hood up over her head. To me, she looked like she was going somewhere, and in a rush!

    Well in Asain culture doing that means you're sacrafising you're self or it's probably her wedding gown and she'll be buried in her gown.

    Definatly not a wedding gown. I was trying to find a good picture, but couldn't. I was just a plain cloak over the clothes she was wearing the entire episode. Why would someone wear a traveling??cloak to an execution?

    Well it's FN fashion we don't know

    So fire nation fashion is to wear your wedding dress all the time?

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