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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

zuko's mom might teach aang how to firebend

  • Avatar of Hoshie26

    Hoshie26

    [81]Aug 18, 2006
    • member since: 07/27/06
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 1,270
    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Hoshie26 wrote:
    Ok.I believe that she did NOT die in Zuko's place.Wife and son are different and are you trying to mess up zuko more?If ursa died because she was trying to keep her son alive and zuko finds out well..and if iroh had not come along with zuko than he would be back in the FN so if these kind of thoughts come to zuko well..I dont think they would do that.zuko would be in the worse pain well close but probable in the worse pain possibe and the most pain any one has ever been.those thoughts alone should make you realize that ursa could not have died in zuko's place.


    no. they don't.

    so your only defense to ursa not dying in zuko's place is because it would hurt poor zuko's feelings? too bad! this is life! (well, in a manner of speaking) if the writers were so concerned about the character's feelings, then Yue would still be alive, Sokka wouldn't have been able to blame himself for it, Gyatso's skeleton wouldn't have been hanging out in that chamber aang found him in, zuko would never have gotten banished, the list goes on! basically, if they were that worried about the characters' feelings, you might as well rename the show "spongebob" and call it a day.

    and even if we're not dredging up the old "it's the creators' story, not ours" argument, then you can't really argue that that could never happen because it would traumatize zuko. like i said, this is life. his life just happens to suck more than others.


    No ones life should suck that much and this show... well Aang is not messed up because he saw the skelonton and Sokka will get better.THIS SHOW IS RATED OK FOR 7 YEAR OLDS FOR PETES SAKE!!!!!!!!AND NO THAT ONE CHANGE DOES NOT MAKE THE SHOW STUPID SPONGEBOB!OK?!?GET IT?!?
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  • Avatar of neverbeenpinker

    neverbeenpinker

    [82]Aug 18, 2006
    • member since: 06/05/06
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 2,357
    Hoshie26 wrote:
    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Hoshie26 wrote:
    Ok.I believe that she did NOT die in Zuko's place.Wife and son are different and are you trying to mess up zuko more?If ursa died because she was trying to keep her son alive and zuko finds out well..and if iroh had not come along with zuko than he would be back in the FN so if these kind of thoughts come to zuko well..I dont think they would do that.zuko would be in the worse pain well close but probable in the worse pain possibe and the most pain any one has ever been.those thoughts alone should make you realize that ursa could not have died in zuko's place.


    no. they don't.

    so your only defense to ursa not dying in zuko's place is because it would hurt poor zuko's feelings? too bad! this is life! (well, in a manner of speaking) if the writers were so concerned about the character's feelings, then Yue would still be alive, Sokka wouldn't have been able to blame himself for it, Gyatso's skeleton wouldn't have been hanging out in that chamber aang found him in, zuko would never have gotten banished, the list goes on! basically, if they were that worried about the characters' feelings, you might as well rename the show "spongebob" and call it a day.

    and even if we're not dredging up the old "it's the creators' story, not ours" argument, then you can't really argue that that could never happen because it would traumatize zuko. like i said, this is life. his life just happens to suck more than others.


    No ones life should suck that much and this show... well Aang is not messed up because he saw the skelonton and Sokka will get better.THIS SHOW IS RATED OK FOR 7 YEAR OLDS FOR PETES SAKE!!!!!!!!AND NO THAT ONE CHANGE DOES NOT MAKE THE SHOW STUPID SPONGEBOB!OK?!?GET IT?!?


    it can still be rated for seven-yeart-olds. if it's still Y7 after seeing gyatso's skeleton, then it will still be Y7. it's not like you see Ursa's body or anything. the only reason they would have for changing the rating (or the only thing they couldn't put on because of the rating) would be sex, drugs, gore, stuff like that. implying that a woman sacrificed her life for her son, doesn't really make the list after skeleton.
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  • Avatar of lledra

    lledra

    [83]Aug 19, 2006
    • member since: 02/20/05
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 53
    Just after Zuko tried to do his firebending.

    Azulon :Just tell me what you want, everyone else go.
    (Azula grabs her brother and leads him behind the curtin)
    Ozai: Father you must have realized as I have. That with Lu Ten gone Iroh's bloodline has ended. After his sons death my brother abandond the seige on Ba Sing Se. And who knows when he will return home. But I am here father and my children are alive.
    Azulon: Say what it is you want.
    Ozai: Father revoke Iroh's birth right. I am your humble servent here to serve you and our nation. Use me.
    Azulon: Use dare suggest that I betray Iroh, my first born. Directly after the demise of his only beloved son. I think that Iroh has suffered enough. But you, your punishment has scarcely begun.
    (Zuko Runs away)

    ---- (Azula coming into Zuko's bedroom)
    Azula: Dads going to Kiill you. Really he is.
    Zuko: Haha Azula nice try.
    Azula: Fine don't believe me, I heard everything. Grandfather said dad's punishment should fit his crime. You must know the pain of loosing a first born son, by sacraficing your own.
    Zuko: Liar.
    Azula: I'm only telling you for your own good. I know, maybe you could find a nice Earth Kingdom family to adopt you.
    Zuko: Stop it! Your lieing. Dad would never do that to me.
    Ursa: Your father would never do what to you? What is going on here?
    Azula: I don't know.
    Ursa: It's time for a talk. (pulls Azula away)
    Zuko: Azula always lies ...

    ----- Ursa Leaving
    Zuko: (waking up) Mom...
    Ursa: Zuko. Please my love listen to me. Everything I've done, I've done to protect you. (casual footsteps) Remember this Zuko. No matter how things seem to change, never forget who you are. (she stands up, pulls her hood over her head, and leaves through the left open bedroom doors)

    ---- Zuko Learns
    Zuko: Mom... (dashes down the hallway)
    (Azula playing with Zuko's knife)
    Zuko: Where's mom?
    Azula: No one knows, and last night Grandpa passed away.
    Zuko: Not funny Azula. Your sick, and I want my knife back. Now.
    Azula: Who's going to make me? Mom?
    (ran away to his father, out in the garden looking down at the fountain)
    Zuko: Where is she?

    And then the Funeral goes through.
    Speaker: We lay you to rest. As was your dieing wish you are now succseeded by your second son. Hail Fire Lord Ozai.
    (everybody bows Zuko looks scared)

    I don't know. I see the possibility that Ursa killed the Fire Lord, After she met with Zuko. That's why she was able to keep the bedroom door open. And that's why she was anxious but not entierly fearful. She wouldn't just steal her son away becasue I believe she didn't want to take him away from his royal possibilities. One day Zuko would become Fire Lord. I could imagine her not wanting to remove him from that.
    From what we actually see of the old man, he doesn't seem like somebody who would go back on his word. Or allow a substitution. He seems fair but hard handed as well.

    But I suppose it all comes down to one thing. We wont know what happened for sure, untill we're shown. So all we can do is speculate.
    And as for Aang learning firebending. I can see it being Iroh over Zuko or his mom. But, we'll have to wait to see. ^^

    Sorry for the long post, and I really didn't want to have to post all the stuff that was said at the funeral, so I chose the ending bit, for it was the most interesting.
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  • Avatar of e-hero-will

    e-hero-will

    [84]Sep 21, 2006
    • member since: 09/05/06
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 324
    Hmm, I wonder how old she is. She's at least 40 right now.
    If she could firebend, she might, or she might have a trusty bodygaurd that could teach him.
    I actually personally think she's dead and that Ozai killed her, because she saw him kill Azulon and make it so he'd be king. He'd do anything to be on that throne.
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  • Avatar of e-hero-will

    e-hero-will

    [85]Sep 21, 2006
    • member since: 09/05/06
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 324
    lledra wrote:
    Just after Zuko tried to do his firebending.

    Azulon :Just tell me what you want, everyone else go.
    (Azula grabs her brother and leads him behind the curtin)
    Ozai: Father you must have realized as I have. That with Lu Ten gone Iroh's bloodline has ended. After his sons death my brother abandond the seige on Ba Sing Se. And who knows when he will return home. But I am here father and my children are alive.
    Azulon: Say what it is you want.
    Ozai: Father revoke Iroh's birth right. I am your humble servent here to serve you and our nation. Use me.
    Azulon: Use dare suggest that I betray Iroh, my first born. Directly after the demise of his only beloved son. I think that Iroh has suffered enough. But you, your punishment has scarcely begun.
    (Zuko Runs away)

    ---- (Azula coming into Zuko's bedroom)
    Azula: Dads going to Kiill you. Really he is.
    Zuko: Haha Azula nice try.
    Azula: Fine don't believe me, I heard everything. Grandfather said dad's punishment should fit his crime. You must know the pain of loosing a first born son, by sacraficing your own.
    Zuko: Liar.
    Azula: I'm only telling you for your own good. I know, maybe you could find a nice Earth Kingdom family to adopt you.
    Zuko: Stop it! Your lieing. Dad would never do that to me.
    Ursa: Your father would never do what to you? What is going on here?
    Azula: I don't know.
    Ursa: It's time for a talk. (pulls Azula away)
    Zuko: Azula always lies ...

    ----- Ursa Leaving
    Zuko: (waking up) Mom...
    Ursa: Zuko. Please my love listen to me. Everything I've done, I've done to protect you. (casual footsteps) Remember this Zuko. No matter how things seem to change, never forget who you are. (she stands up, pulls her hood over her head, and leaves through the left open bedroom doors)

    ---- Zuko Learns
    Zuko: Mom... (dashes down the hallway)
    (Azula playing with Zuko's knife)
    Zuko: Where's mom?
    Azula: No one knows, and last night Grandpa passed away.
    Zuko: Not funny Azula. Your sick, and I want my knife back. Now.
    Azula: Who's going to make me? Mom?
    (ran away to his father, out in the garden looking down at the fountain)
    Zuko: Where is she?

    And then the Funeral goes through.
    Speaker: We lay you to rest. As was your dieing wish you are now succseeded by your second son. Hail Fire Lord Ozai.
    (everybody bows Zuko looks scared)

    I don't know. I see the possibility that Ursa killed the Fire Lord, After she met with Zuko. That's why she was able to keep the bedroom door open. And that's why she was anxious but not entierly fearful. She wouldn't just steal her son away becasue I believe she didn't want to take him away from his royal possibilities. One day Zuko would become Fire Lord. I could imagine her not wanting to remove him from that.
    From what we actually see of the old man, he doesn't seem like somebody who would go back on his word. Or allow a substitution. He seems fair but hard handed as well.

    But I suppose it all comes down to one thing. We wont know what happened for sure, untill we're shown. So all we can do is speculate.
    And as for Aang learning firebending. I can see it being Iroh over Zuko or his mom. But, we'll have to wait to see. ^^

    Sorry for the long post, and I really didn't want to have to post all the stuff that was said at the funeral, so I chose the ending bit, for it was the most interesting.

    She wouldn't kill Azulon, ever.
    She always spoke of not speaking about Azulon dieing, or Iroh dieing.
    She'd be a hypocrit.
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  • Avatar of mister001

    mister001

    [86]Sep 21, 2006
    • member since: 09/16/06
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 434
    e-hero-will wrote:
    lledra wrote:
    Just after Zuko tried to do his firebending.

    Azulon :Just tell me what you want, everyone else go.
    (Azula grabs her brother and leads him behind the curtin)
    Ozai: Father you must have realized as I have. That with Lu Ten gone Iroh's bloodline has ended. After his sons death my brother abandond the seige on Ba Sing Se. And who knows when he will return home. But I am here father and my children are alive.
    Azulon: Say what it is you want.
    Ozai: Father revoke Iroh's birth right. I am your humble servent here to serve you and our nation. Use me.
    Azulon: Use dare suggest that I betray Iroh, my first born. Directly after the demise of his only beloved son. I think that Iroh has suffered enough. But you, your punishment has scarcely begun.
    (Zuko Runs away)

    ---- (Azula coming into Zuko's bedroom)
    Azula: Dads going to Kiill you. Really he is.
    Zuko: Haha Azula nice try.
    Azula: Fine don't believe me, I heard everything. Grandfather said dad's punishment should fit his crime. You must know the pain of loosing a first born son, by sacraficing your own.
    Zuko: Liar.
    Azula: I'm only telling you for your own good. I know, maybe you could find a nice Earth Kingdom family to adopt you.
    Zuko: Stop it! Your lieing. Dad would never do that to me.
    Ursa: Your father would never do what to you? What is going on here?
    Azula: I don't know.
    Ursa: It's time for a talk. (pulls Azula away)
    Zuko: Azula always lies ...

    ----- Ursa Leaving
    Zuko: (waking up) Mom...
    Ursa: Zuko. Please my love listen to me. Everything I've done, I've done to protect you. (casual footsteps) Remember this Zuko. No matter how things seem to change, never forget who you are. (she stands up, pulls her hood over her head, and leaves through the left open bedroom doors)

    ---- Zuko Learns
    Zuko: Mom... (dashes down the hallway)
    (Azula playing with Zuko's knife)
    Zuko: Where's mom?
    Azula: No one knows, and last night Grandpa passed away.
    Zuko: Not funny Azula. Your sick, and I want my knife back. Now.
    Azula: Who's going to make me? Mom?
    (ran away to his father, out in the garden looking down at the fountain)
    Zuko: Where is she?

    And then the Funeral goes through.
    Speaker: We lay you to rest. As was your dieing wish you are now succseeded by your second son. Hail Fire Lord Ozai.
    (everybody bows Zuko looks scared)

    I don't know. I see the possibility that Ursa killed the Fire Lord, After she met with Zuko. That's why she was able to keep the bedroom door open. And that's why she was anxious but not entierly fearful. She wouldn't just steal her son away becasue I believe she didn't want to take him away from his royal possibilities. One day Zuko would become Fire Lord. I could imagine her not wanting to remove him from that.
    From what we actually see of the old man, he doesn't seem like somebody who would go back on his word. Or allow a substitution. He seems fair but hard handed as well.

    But I suppose it all comes down to one thing. We wont know what happened for sure, untill we're shown. So all we can do is speculate.
    And as for Aang learning firebending. I can see it being Iroh over Zuko or his mom. But, we'll have to wait to see. ^^

    Sorry for the long post, and I really didn't want to have to post all the stuff that was said at the funeral, so I chose the ending bit, for it was the most interesting.

    She wouldn't kill Azulon, ever.
    She always spoke of not speaking about Azulon dieing, or Iroh dieing.
    She'd be a hypocrit.


    I do agree with the long post story... and not with the she would never kill azulon story cuz she's a mother and she loves zuko with al her heart and a mothers love is able to do "great" things even if she has to kill she would just do anything for zuko....
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  • Avatar of C1991

    C1991

    [87]Sep 21, 2006
    • member since: 01/07/06
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 2,478
    hakeemadams94 wrote:

    Taang_Forever wrote:
    We don't know that... for sure...

    They said it at the funeral.Zuko father had to kill someone.

    OMG I got an Idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It's kinda far fetched, though

    What if he hired a hitman to kill Lu Ten!!!????

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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [88]Sep 21, 2006
    • member since: 08/05/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 5,201
    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Airawende wrote:

    iiMNOTOKAY wrote:
    lpohue wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    I personally think she killed Azulon, because if he was dead, there weren't many left to know what Azulon said about killing Zuko. Remember the whole "don't mess with a mother duck's babies" thing?
    That's what I think. She killed him and went into hiding.
    That's also what I think. I agree.

    Yay, I'm not alone! NBP, it's not a stupid theory! We've only seen Ursa for one episode. I know my mom would kill someone if they wanted to kill me. So we don't entirly know it's not something Ursa would do.

    well, that's true, we don't really know her all that well, but i mean she got pretty miffed at zuko when he threw the roll at that turtleduck, and overall she just seems like a pretty gentle person. killing someone isn't as easy as just having a motive. it takes a lot to kill someone. especially if you're already naturally kind-hearted.
    Airawende wrote:
    I persoally think her sacrificing herself is stupid. if she sacrificed herself, thinking it would save Zuko, what if Azulon decided it was not the same after she was dead, and still decided to kill Zuko? Then who would protect him?
    well, as fire-lord, i don't think azulon would do that. he wouldn't kill ursa as punishment and then go back on his word. i'm pretty sure fire-lords (kings in general) are raised with a sense of dignity. it would be something of a blow to his own image if he went back on his word that drastically. (the exception to the whole dignity thing is ozai and azula. they are sociopaths. there's no teaching morals to them. azulon clearly had some bizzarre twisted version of a heart in their somewhere because he sympathized with iroh's loss. i don't think he would have gone back on his word.)
    Airawende wrote:
    It would be a selfish thing on her part.
    oh, yes. what a witch. giving up her own life for her son? how dare she.
    Airawende wrote:

    It also explains Azulons sudden death. There are subtle ways to kill someone.
    such as.....?
    Airawende wrote:

    And besides, if this benifitted Ozai, meaning that he could go around telling people Azulon made him the heir and there was nobody to say he didn't, Ozai would help cover it up.

    See, perfectly plausible
    that's true i guess. it's not like anyone's going to stand up against him. i suppose it's possible that he just seized power after azulon's death and then incinerated anyone who spoke up against him. and iroh was probably still a little too grief-stricken to really care that his brother took the throne. and he was the only one who could have said something. but that explains why ozai got to be fire-lord, but it doesn't explain anything else.

    1. Once again, even if she is kind hearted, motus operandi would be to protect her offspring! Going back to the turtle duck thing, if I may, The turtle duck attacked Zuko for hurting her young. I, personally, see a much deeper meaning in this fact. The turtle ducks look harmless, but mess with their young and their on you. She only chided Zuko becaus eshe is most likely trying to teach him well. So yes, killing someone can be as easy as a motive, especially if the motive is protecting your favorite child.

    2. I don't see how someone like Azulon would have a problem going back on their words. Royalty in our world is notoriously sneaky sometimes, how is this any different. Besides, as firelord, he can always say he never made any bargain. Your forgetting the power this man has. What he says goes. Dignity has nothing to do with this. Morality, perhaps, but not dignity. He sympathised with Iroh, I think, because he knew that a future heir to the throne, who had been groomed since birth for said job, was lost.

    3. All sarcasm aside *cough cough* This part goes back to my previous point. Ursa was Zuko's only protector (Iroh aside) and if she could have done something else to save him, even if it meant going agaist her own morals, it would have been selfish for her not. Why let herself be killed while their was still a chance her son was still in danger? Who then would protect him?

    4. Seeing as this is a more unadvanced society as the one we live in, poisons that we would be able to recognise with forensics, would not be detected. There are many plants that could do the job and such. It's not all as blatantly obvious as a knife in the back or something. Think back to our own past. Thik of how easily Kings were assasinated! With poisons!

    5. It does explain other things. It explains my whole point. To sum it up: Ursa found out from Azula about what Azulon wanted to do to Zuko. Ursa went into "mad turlte duck" mode, and made the decision to kill Azulon, then she would have to leave, but she would at least know Zuko was safe (no threat from Ozai at this point). Then, Ozai probably helped to cover it up, because now there was nobody to say Azulon didn't make him the heir. Who was Iroh to argue?

    So anyway, that's my idea. I know it wont convince you, but I'm sticking by it.


    1. no no no no no! you think it's that easy to kill someone? you think it's as easy as being pissed off and having a weapon? can you, right now, physically picture yourself killing anyone? even if it meant that person was trying to hurt her child. if a dog attacked your child, would you have what it takes to kill it? you think it's that easy just killing someone? no! it's not! (and p.s. to brian: don't you think someone would have noticed that azulon had a knife wound? they clearly didn't know that azulon was murdered or they wouldn't have gotten around to the whole "dying wish" crap)

    2. yeah, royalty is sneaky, but it's like ozai's sneaky. they're only sneaky when ever there is something to be gained. what would he have to gain by saying that he'll kill his grandson, but will take his faughter-in-law in his place, then kills her, and then goes after his grandson anyway? he had nothing to gain, so what was the point? and besides, that doesn't prove anything. do you really think ozai cared enough about zuko to kill his own father for him? yeah right! not in this lifetime!

    3. okay, i think you are using the word "selfish" out of context. for her to be "selfish" she would be thinking more of her self than her son. she would have no reason to think that zuko was still in danger. azulon wasn't some mad old blood-thirsty vampire who killed someone every chance he got! he told ozai that he should know the pain that iroh was going through by sacrificing his own son. if he was going to be so intent on killing zuko then he would have just said no and not have taken ursa in zuko's place and demanded it be zuko as planned.

    4. yes, i'm thinking of how easily kings were assasinated, but right after everyone was all "oh no! someone killed the king!" no one ever said "oh, poor sap. he died in his sleep". if your king is the "picture of health" and he drops dead, then there are bound to be a few raised eyebrows. they are going to check things like his glasses for poison (who said anything about forensics? you stick your finger in the glass, put it in your mouth and if it tastes like poison, then boom! we have a winner! haven't you ever read And Then There Were None?) or you check him knife wounds or strangle marks or something like that. i mean, azulon wa clearly murdered, but it had to have been ozai who did it because he's the only one with that kind of power to cover it up.

    5. i think iroh didn't argue because he didn't want the throne. he had just lost his son, he probably just didn't care anymore. and what kind of mother leaves her son in OZAI"S hands? he was always a threat to ozai, if not physical abuse than by emotional abuse. ozai had always pitted his own children against each other and he made zuko's life miserable. if ursa killed azulon (unlikely) then i think she would have swtayed to take responsibility for her own actions. and besides, if ozai had the power to cover up the murder, then why would ursa have to leave? if everyone thought that azulon had died peacefully and had even had past slowly enough to make a "dying wish" the why would ursa have to leave?


    I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to side with Air. but I'm gonna make my answers short.

    1) I'm pretty sure if that turtle duck could take off Zuko(as much as I love him)'s head it would've so ya she was able to kill Azulon

    2)I'm not ven gonna bother with this one cause we don't know enough about him to go either way

    3)um there are more ways than poison to kill someone subtly. especialy in his sleep. she could have held her hand over his mouth and pintched his nose till he stoped breathing. and there are also other ways to suffacate someone

    4)who ealse knows what was said in that meeting besides him & ozai. I'm sure that Ozai wouldn't tell the truth about what was said in the throne room. he could have said that azulan told him he was gonna be the next firelord. also ursa ran because u never know when ur phyco husband (I bet 100000000000000 cookies it was an arranged marrige) will tun on ya
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