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zuko's mom might teach aang how to firebend

  • Avatar of lpohue

    lpohue

    [21]Aug 11, 2006
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    Airawende wrote:
    I personally think she killed Azulon, because if he was dead, there weren't many left to know what Azulon said about killing Zuko. Remember the whole "don't mess with a mother duck's babies" thing?


    That's what I think. She killed him and went into hiding.
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  • Avatar of iiMNOTOKAY

    iiMNOTOKAY

    [22]Aug 11, 2006
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    lpohue wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    I personally think she killed Azulon, because if he was dead, there weren't many left to know what Azulon said about killing Zuko. Remember the whole "don't mess with a mother duck's babies" thing?


    That's what I think. She killed him and went into hiding.


    That's also what I think. I agree.
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  • Avatar of sadist_activst

    sadist_activst

    [23]Aug 11, 2006
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    Its sick. Azulon wanted to kill his grandson just b/c Ozai offended him. I'm glad he's dead.

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  • Avatar of Airawende

    Airawende

    [24]Aug 11, 2006
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    iiMNOTOKAY wrote:
    lpohue wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    I personally think she killed Azulon, because if he was dead, there weren't many left to know what Azulon said about killing Zuko. Remember the whole "don't mess with a mother duck's babies" thing?
    That's what I think. She killed him and went into hiding.
    That's also what I think. I agree.

    Yay, I'm not alone! NBP, it's not a stupid theory! We've only seen Ursa for one episode. I know my mom would kill someone if they wanted to kill me. So we don't entirly know it's not something Ursa would do.

    I persoally think her sacrificing herself is stupid. if she sacrificed herself, thinking it would save Zuko, what if Azulon decided it was not the same after she was dead, and still decided to kill Zuko? Then who would protect him? It would be a selfish thing on her part.

    It also explains Azulons sudden death. There are subtle ways to kill someone.

    And besides, if this benifitted Ozai, meaning that he could go around telling people Azulon made him the heir and there was nobody to say he didn't, Ozai would help cover it up.

    See, perfectly plausible

    Edited on 08/11/2006 1:44pm
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  • Avatar of Songoftheskies

    Songoftheskies

    [25]Aug 11, 2006
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    sadist_activst wrote:

    Its sick. Azulon wanted to kill his grandson just b/c Ozai offended him. I'm glad he's dead.

    We don't know that Azulon wanted to kill Zuko.?? That's what Azula said.?? And remember... "Azula always lies."

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  • Avatar of neverbeenpinker

    neverbeenpinker

    [26]Aug 11, 2006
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    [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
    Edited on 08/11/2006 2:20pm
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  • Avatar of neverbeenpinker

    neverbeenpinker

    [27]Aug 11, 2006
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    Airawende wrote:

    iiMNOTOKAY wrote:
    lpohue wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    I personally think she killed Azulon, because if he was dead, there weren't many left to know what Azulon said about killing Zuko. Remember the whole "don't mess with a mother duck's babies" thing?
    That's what I think. She killed him and went into hiding.
    That's also what I think. I agree.

    Yay, I'm not alone! NBP, it's not a stupid theory! We've only seen Ursa for one episode. I know my mom would kill someone if they wanted to kill me. So we don't entirly know it's not something Ursa would do.



    well, that's true, we don't really know her all that well, but i mean she got pretty miffed at zuko when he threw the roll at that turtleduck, and overall she just seems like a pretty gentle person. killing someone isn't as easy as just having a motive. it takes a lot to kill someone. especially if you're already naturally kind-hearted.

    Airawende wrote:
    I persoally think her sacrificing herself is stupid. if she sacrificed herself, thinking it would save Zuko, what if Azulon decided it was not the same after she was dead, and still decided to kill Zuko? Then who would protect him?


    well, as fire-lord, i don't think azulon would do that. he wouldn't kill ursa as punishment and then go back on his word. i'm pretty sure fire-lords (kings in general) are raised with a sense of dignity. it would be something of a blow to his own image if he went back on his word that drastically. (the exception to the whole dignity thing is ozai and azula. they are sociopaths. there's no teaching morals to them. azulon clearly had some bizzarre twisted version of a heart in their somewhere because he sympathized with iroh's loss. i don't think he would have gone back on his word.)

    Airawende wrote:
    It would be a selfish thing on her part.



    oh, yes. what a witch. giving up her own life for her son? how dare she.

    Airawende wrote:

    It also explains Azulons sudden death. There are subtle ways to kill someone.



    such as.....?

    Airawende wrote:

    And besides, if this benifitted Ozai, meaning that he could go around telling people Azulon made him the heir and there was nobody to say he didn't, Ozai would help cover it up.

    See, perfectly plausible



    that's true i guess. it's not like anyone's going to stand up against him. i suppose it's possible that he just seized power after azulon's death and then incinerated anyone who spoke up against him. and iroh was probably still a little too grief-stricken to really care that his brother took the throne. and he was the only one who could have said something.

    but that explains why ozai got to be fire-lord, but it doesn't explain anything else.
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  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [28]Aug 11, 2006
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    Well in the next episodes we'll learn more of Zuko's past as well as Iroh's
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  • Avatar of acetv

    acetv

    [29]Aug 11, 2006
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    Really, I thought she ran away or something. that'll be intresting
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  • Avatar of qweasdzse

    qweasdzse

    [30]Aug 11, 2006
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    I despise theories and speculation most of the time it just gets on my nerves. But the topic creater should explain why Ursa would teach Aang to firebend.?? Why would she want Aang to kill her family, Why would she betray the fire nation, why would she be able to teach Aang when she hasn't even done firebending on the TV.
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  • Avatar of CH0C0Bi

    CH0C0Bi

    [31]Aug 11, 2006
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    qweasdzse wrote:
    I despise theories and speculation most of the time it just gets on my nerves. But the topic creater should explain why Ursa would teach Aang to firebend.?? Why would she want Aang to kill her family, Why would she betray the fire nation, why would she be able to teach Aang when she hasn't even done firebending on the TV.

    Good point---and no offense??to those who write fanfics about Zuko teaching Aang firebending---it's also the same with Zuko. Why??would he betray his own country and family too???(even though??he's a fugitive and he hates his sister, but that's something else.)??Last time I checked was that he didn't want his father to think of him as a failure. I think that Jeong Jeong (if he ever returns) is going to teach Aang firebending.

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  • Avatar of Airawende

    Airawende

    [32]Aug 11, 2006
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    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Airawende wrote:

    iiMNOTOKAY wrote:
    lpohue wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    I personally think she killed Azulon, because if he was dead, there weren't many left to know what Azulon said about killing Zuko. Remember the whole "don't mess with a mother duck's babies" thing?
    That's what I think. She killed him and went into hiding.
    That's also what I think. I agree.

    Yay, I'm not alone! NBP, it's not a stupid theory! We've only seen Ursa for one episode. I know my mom would kill someone if they wanted to kill me. So we don't entirly know it's not something Ursa would do.

    well, that's true, we don't really know her all that well, but i mean she got pretty miffed at zuko when he threw the roll at that turtleduck, and overall she just seems like a pretty gentle person. killing someone isn't as easy as just having a motive. it takes a lot to kill someone. especially if you're already naturally kind-hearted.
    Airawende wrote:
    I persoally think her sacrificing herself is stupid. if she sacrificed herself, thinking it would save Zuko, what if Azulon decided it was not the same after she was dead, and still decided to kill Zuko? Then who would protect him?
    well, as fire-lord, i don't think azulon would do that. he wouldn't kill ursa as punishment and then go back on his word. i'm pretty sure fire-lords (kings in general) are raised with a sense of dignity. it would be something of a blow to his own image if he went back on his word that drastically. (the exception to the whole dignity thing is ozai and azula. they are sociopaths. there's no teaching morals to them. azulon clearly had some bizzarre twisted version of a heart in their somewhere because he sympathized with iroh's loss. i don't think he would have gone back on his word.)
    Airawende wrote:
    It would be a selfish thing on her part.

    oh, yes. what a witch. giving up her own life for her son? how dare she.
    Airawende wrote:

    It also explains Azulons sudden death. There are subtle ways to kill someone.

    such as.....?
    Airawende wrote:

    And besides, if this benifitted Ozai, meaning that he could go around telling people Azulon made him the heir and there was nobody to say he didn't, Ozai would help cover it up.

    See, perfectly plausible

    that's true i guess. it's not like anyone's going to stand up against him. i suppose it's possible that he just seized power after azulon's death and then incinerated anyone who spoke up against him. and iroh was probably still a little too grief-stricken to really care that his brother took the throne. and he was the only one who could have said something. but that explains why ozai got to be fire-lord, but it doesn't explain anything else.

    1. Once again, even if she is kind hearted, motus operandi would be to protect her offspring! Going back to the turtle duck thing, if I may, The turtle duck attacked Zuko for hurting her young. I, personally, see a much deeper meaning in this fact. The turtle ducks look harmless, but mess with their young and their on you. She only chided Zuko becaus eshe is most likely trying to teach him well. So yes, killing someone can be as easy as a motive, especially if the motive is protecting your favorite child.

    2. I don't see how someone like Azulon would have a problem going back on their words. Royalty in our world is notoriously sneaky sometimes, how is this any different. Besides, as firelord, he can always say he never made any bargain. Your forgetting the power this man has. What he says goes. Dignity has nothing to do with this. Morality, perhaps, but not dignity. He sympathised with Iroh, I think, because he knew that a future heir to the throne, who had been groomed since birth for said job, was lost.

    3. All sarcasm aside *cough cough* This part goes back to my previous point. Ursa was Zuko's only protector (Iroh aside) and if she could have done something else to save him, even if it meant going agaist her own morals, it would have been selfish for her not. Why let herself be killed while their was still a chance her son was still in danger? Who then would protect him?

    4. Seeing as this is a more unadvanced society as the one we live in, poisons that we would be able to recognise with forensics, would not be detected. There are many plants that could do the job and such. It's not all as blatantly obvious as a knife in the back or something. Think back to our own past. Thik of how easily Kings were assasinated! With poisons!

    5. It does explain other things. It explains my whole point. To sum it up: Ursa found out from Azula about what Azulon wanted to do to Zuko. Ursa went into "mad turlte duck" mode, and made the decision to kill Azulon, then she would have to leave, but she would at least know Zuko was safe (no threat from Ozai at this point). Then, Ozai probably helped to cover it up, because now there was nobody to say Azulon didn't make him the heir. Who was Iroh to argue?

    So anyway, that's my idea. I know it wont convince you, but I'm sticking by it.

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  • Avatar of lilykt7

    lilykt7

    [33]Aug 11, 2006
    • member since: 06/07/06
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    lol

    Zuko- who the heck would teach you to fire bend!

    Aang- yo mamma!

    Zuko- O_o

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  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [34]Aug 11, 2006
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    Well we must remember that Zuko isn't even close to being a master and Ursa probably used a sword to kill Azulon.
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  • Avatar of earthbender623

    earthbender623

    [35]Aug 11, 2006
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    I believe that Ursa killed Azulon and fled the country. The only other peoploe that would have killed him were Ozai or Azula. I think Azula would have waited until Zuko was dead before she killed Azulon.
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  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [36]Aug 11, 2006
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    Well that theory was flawed if she did any crime she'll make sure Zuko is safe before being punished and if she fleed she'll tale Zuko with her.
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  • Avatar of Airawende

    Airawende

    [37]Aug 11, 2006
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    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    Well that theory was flawed if she did any crime she'll make sure Zuko is safe before being punished and if she fleed she'll tale Zuko with her.

    How do you know she'd take Zuko. I don't see that as a flaw. She knew that by killing Azulon, ozai would do his sneaky thing and become firelord, making Zuko the next heir. Why would she take her son from that? She did make sure Zuko was safe, she got rid of Azulon. Read my long explanation thingie...

    Edited on 08/11/2006 6:29pm
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  • Avatar of neverbeenpinker

    neverbeenpinker

    [38]Aug 11, 2006
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    Airawende wrote:
    neverbeenpinker wrote:
    Airawende wrote:

    iiMNOTOKAY wrote:
    lpohue wrote:
    Airawende wrote:
    I personally think she killed Azulon, because if he was dead, there weren't many left to know what Azulon said about killing Zuko. Remember the whole "don't mess with a mother duck's babies" thing?
    That's what I think. She killed him and went into hiding.
    That's also what I think. I agree.

    Yay, I'm not alone! NBP, it's not a stupid theory! We've only seen Ursa for one episode. I know my mom would kill someone if they wanted to kill me. So we don't entirly know it's not something Ursa would do.

    well, that's true, we don't really know her all that well, but i mean she got pretty miffed at zuko when he threw the roll at that turtleduck, and overall she just seems like a pretty gentle person. killing someone isn't as easy as just having a motive. it takes a lot to kill someone. especially if you're already naturally kind-hearted.
    Airawende wrote:
    I persoally think her sacrificing herself is stupid. if she sacrificed herself, thinking it would save Zuko, what if Azulon decided it was not the same after she was dead, and still decided to kill Zuko? Then who would protect him?
    well, as fire-lord, i don't think azulon would do that. he wouldn't kill ursa as punishment and then go back on his word. i'm pretty sure fire-lords (kings in general) are raised with a sense of dignity. it would be something of a blow to his own image if he went back on his word that drastically. (the exception to the whole dignity thing is ozai and azula. they are sociopaths. there's no teaching morals to them. azulon clearly had some bizzarre twisted version of a heart in their somewhere because he sympathized with iroh's loss. i don't think he would have gone back on his word.)
    Airawende wrote:
    It would be a selfish thing on her part.

    oh, yes. what a witch. giving up her own life for her son? how dare she.
    Airawende wrote:

    It also explains Azulons sudden death. There are subtle ways to kill someone.

    such as.....?
    Airawende wrote:

    And besides, if this benifitted Ozai, meaning that he could go around telling people Azulon made him the heir and there was nobody to say he didn't, Ozai would help cover it up.

    See, perfectly plausible

    that's true i guess. it's not like anyone's going to stand up against him. i suppose it's possible that he just seized power after azulon's death and then incinerated anyone who spoke up against him. and iroh was probably still a little too grief-stricken to really care that his brother took the throne. and he was the only one who could have said something. but that explains why ozai got to be fire-lord, but it doesn't explain anything else.

    1. Once again, even if she is kind hearted, motus operandi would be to protect her offspring! Going back to the turtle duck thing, if I may, The turtle duck attacked Zuko for hurting her young. I, personally, see a much deeper meaning in this fact. The turtle ducks look harmless, but mess with their young and their on you. She only chided Zuko becaus eshe is most likely trying to teach him well. So yes, killing someone can be as easy as a motive, especially if the motive is protecting your favorite child.

    2. I don't see how someone like Azulon would have a problem going back on their words. Royalty in our world is notoriously sneaky sometimes, how is this any different. Besides, as firelord, he can always say he never made any bargain. Your forgetting the power this man has. What he says goes. Dignity has nothing to do with this. Morality, perhaps, but not dignity. He sympathised with Iroh, I think, because he knew that a future heir to the throne, who had been groomed since birth for said job, was lost.

    3. All sarcasm aside *cough cough* This part goes back to my previous point. Ursa was Zuko's only protector (Iroh aside) and if she could have done something else to save him, even if it meant going agaist her own morals, it would have been selfish for her not. Why let herself be killed while their was still a chance her son was still in danger? Who then would protect him?

    4. Seeing as this is a more unadvanced society as the one we live in, poisons that we would be able to recognise with forensics, would not be detected. There are many plants that could do the job and such. It's not all as blatantly obvious as a knife in the back or something. Think back to our own past. Thik of how easily Kings were assasinated! With poisons!

    5. It does explain other things. It explains my whole point. To sum it up: Ursa found out from Azula about what Azulon wanted to do to Zuko. Ursa went into "mad turlte duck" mode, and made the decision to kill Azulon, then she would have to leave, but she would at least know Zuko was safe (no threat from Ozai at this point). Then, Ozai probably helped to cover it up, because now there was nobody to say Azulon didn't make him the heir. Who was Iroh to argue?

    So anyway, that's my idea. I know it wont convince you, but I'm sticking by it.



    1. no no no no no! you think it's that easy to kill someone? you think it's as easy as being pissed off and having a weapon? can you, right now, physically picture yourself killing anyone? even if it meant that person was trying to hurt her child. if a dog attacked your child, would you have what it takes to kill it? you think it's that easy just killing someone? no! it's not! (and p.s. to brian: don't you think someone would have noticed that azulon had a knife wound? they clearly didn't know that azulon was murdered or they wouldn't have gotten around to the whole "dying wish" crap)

    2. yeah, royalty is sneaky, but it's like ozai's sneaky. they're only sneaky when ever there is something to be gained. what would he have to gain by saying that he'll kill his grandson, but will take his faughter-in-law in his place, then kills her, and then goes after his grandson anyway? he had nothing to gain, so what was the point? and besides, that doesn't prove anything. do you really think ozai cared enough about zuko to kill his own father for him? yeah right! not in this lifetime!

    3. okay, i think you are using the word "selfish" out of context. for her to be "selfish" she would be thinking more of her self than her son. she would have no reason to think that zuko was still in danger. azulon wasn't some mad old blood-thirsty vampire who killed someone every chance he got! he told ozai that he should know the pain that iroh was going through by sacrificing his own son. if he was going to be so intent on killing zuko then he would have just said no and not have taken ursa in zuko's place and demanded it be zuko as planned.

    4. yes, i'm thinking of how easily kings were assasinated, but right after everyone was all "oh no! someone killed the king!" no one ever said "oh, poor sap. he died in his sleep". if your king is the "picture of health" and he drops dead, then there are bound to be a few raised eyebrows. they are going to check things like his glasses for poison (who said anything about forensics? you stick your finger in the glass, put it in your mouth and if it tastes like poison, then boom! we have a winner! haven't you ever read And Then There Were None?) or you check him knife wounds or strangle marks or something like that. i mean, azulon wa clearly murdered, but it had to have been ozai who did it because he's the only one with that kind of power to cover it up.

    5. i think iroh didn't argue because he didn't want the throne. he had just lost his son, he probably just didn't care anymore. and what kind of mother leaves her son in OZAI"S hands? he was always a threat to ozai, if not physical abuse than by emotional abuse. ozai had always pitted his own children against each other and he made zuko's life miserable. if ursa killed azulon (unlikely) then i think she would have swtayed to take responsibility for her own actions. and besides, if ozai had the power to cover up the murder, then why would ursa have to leave? if everyone thought that azulon had died peacefully and had even had past slowly enough to make a "dying wish" the why would ursa have to leave?
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  • Avatar of neverbeenpinker

    neverbeenpinker

    [39]Aug 11, 2006
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    holy crap that was a long post.
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  • Avatar of brokensocks

    brokensocks

    [40]Aug 11, 2006
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    This is what I think happened.

    Ursa killed Azulon to save Zuko. Maybe with poison, because Azulon had a DYING wish. But people back then couldn't tell if someone was murdered with poison, so they supposed he died of old age. Azulon gave the throne to Ozai seeing that Iroh wasn't back yet. Ursa had to flee for safety, but wouldn't take her children with her, because when you're on the run, it's a very unstable life. Truthfully, Zuko is better off staying at the palace, even if he won't be happiest without her.

    I hope Ursa returns.

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