We're moving Forums to the Community pages. Click here for more information and updates.

Avatar: The Last Airbender Forums

Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Zhao Dead or Not?

  • Avatar of Falcondude123

    Falcondude123

    [41]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 09/24/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,602
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    OK now we all saw Zhao being pulled into the water by the ocean spirit yes? Well I've been thinking about this for some time and I don't think he's dead. My reasons are: When Sokka was taken by a spirit that was angry at people for destroying his forest the spirit still didn't kill him only kept him in a "Holding Area" of the spirit world. Now that spirit had a right to be angry due to the fact that his trees were killed. But the Ocean spirit can't make that same clam. Seeing the moon spirit die is what made it angry and that's why it started destroying the Fire Nation boats but then after seeing that the Moon had come back (meaning the Moon Spirit was alive again) the ocean spirit stopped attacking and withdrew back into the village. Now the reason I think that Zhao is alive is because killing Zhao now would be Murder and that would be evil. The Ocean spirit is all about balance and peace. If the Moon had stayed gone then maybe it would be just but with the Moon alive the Ocean spirit wouldn't be in the right for killing him. And I think the Ocean spirit knows that and he took Zhao to one of the "Holding Areas" Like Sokka was.

    Now my other reason for thinking that Zhao is alive is because of how the series finale will be set up. Now Aang, Katara, Sokka, Zuko, and everyone else will be fighting Ozai when the Comet arrives, and that fight will take place somewhere in the Fire Nation. Now here's something no one here has thought about. When the Comet comes Ozai will have already sent the mass of his army into the Capital of the Earth Kingdom to use the power to destroy it once and for all. Now here is where it's going to get complicated, Even if Aang and Co. beat the Fire Lord and Zuko becomes the new Fire Lord how are they going to stop the Fire Nation from destroying the Earth Capital anyway? There is no way of sending a message to the battle field explaining what has happened and even if the message would magically get there very few would believe and continue the attack. Now here comes Zhao, Zhao is the only person we have seen in the entire series who has control over the Fire Nation military, not only does he have authority but a massive amount of it. Now here is where the "Holding Area" comes into play. During his time in the "Area" he becomes good and agrees to help Zuko and Co. Then he goes to the Capital of the Earth Kingdom the same time Zuko, Aang and the others go to the Fire Nation. They beat the Fire Lord and Zhao orders everyone to stop their attack on Bai Sing Sei. Now since he has such military power he may have the full authority to do such a thing. Then the show can end.

    Now why do I think he will stop the Fire Nation? Well the writers have gone out of their way to make Zhao very powerful in the military yes? Well I don't believe the soul reason for this is so he could amass the army to attack the North Pole. Because if that was the writer???s plans then there would have been no reason to have Zhao be promoted from Commander to Admiral since he would have had the authority to command the Captains with his Commander Authority. But at the rank of Admiral he might have the power to stop an army directly under the order of the Fire Lord. He is the only logic possibility to stop the Fire Nation from attacking and ultimately (With the power from the Comet)destroy the Earth Kingdom Capital.

    *Takes a deep breath*

    Well there you have it. My thoughts on the subject.

    Yes that's right I thought long and hard about it.


    How is it murder to kill someone so ruthless and unjust who attacks without cause and is responsible for the deaths of possibly hundreds of people? He starts every fight he gets involved with, steals other's lands and planned on "barely" keeping aang alive in the blue spirit. He is an evil murderer himself and killing him would be justice. To everyone who doesn't believe in the death penalty because you can't know for sure if you are killing the guilty, there is no doubt of Zhou's crimes. If it were me I would have torn him to pieces instead of peaceful drowning.

    Zhou's crimes(that we know of):
    Waging war on peaceful villages and peoples without provocation (murder).
    Intent to kill Aang on one occasion.
    Kidnapping Aang.
    Intent to torture Aang perhaps via starvation.
    Intent to have Zuko killed.
    Handing the loyal sages over to the fire lord as traitors.
    Killing moon spirit.
    Kidnapping moon spirit.
    Burning forests and towns.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of bag2218

    bag2218

    [42]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 08/16/05
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 2,340

    it's unlikely for NIck to have a show where someone gets killed so he might come back.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Eman5805

    Eman5805

    [43]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 11/05/04
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 5,943

    Falcondude123 wrote:

    How is it murder to kill someone so ruthless and unjust who attacks without cause and is responsible for the deaths of possibly hundreds of people? He starts every fight he gets involved with, steals other's lands and planned on "barely" keeping aang alive in the blue spirit. He is an evil murderer himself and killing him would be justice. To everyone who doesn't believe in the death penalty because you can't know for sure if you are killing the guilty, there is no doubt of Zhou's crimes. If it were me I would have torn him to pieces instead of peaceful drowning.

    Zhou's crimes(that we know of):
    Waging war on peaceful villages and peoples without provocation (murder).
    Intent to kill Aang on one occasion.
    Kidnapping Aang.
    Intent to torture Aang perhaps via starvation.
    Intent to have Zuko killed.
    Handing the loyal sages over to the fire lord as traitors.
    Killing moon spirit.
    Kidnapping moon spirit.
    Burning forests and towns

    Hm...interesting...almost all of those crimes Zhao did has been done by Azula(except she physically tried to kill Zuko and Aang and didn't just have intent)...coincidence? you decide...

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of dumbTVnut

    dumbTVnut

    [44]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 12/21/05
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 3,445
    bag2218 wrote:

    it's unlikely for Nick to have a show where someone gets killed so he might come back.



    They openly killed Princess Yue.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of whiteforest

    whiteforest

    [45]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 09/17/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 2,761
    Falcondude123 wrote:


    How is it murder to kill someone so ruthless and unjust who attacks without cause and is responsible for the deaths of possibly hundreds of people? He starts every fight he gets involved with, steals other's lands and planned on "barely" keeping aang alive in the blue spirit. He is an evil murderer himself and killing him would be justice. To everyone who doesn't believe in the death penalty because you can't know for sure if you are killing the guilty, there is no doubt of Zhou's crimes. If it were me I would have torn him to pieces instead of peaceful drowning.

    Zhou's crimes(that we know of):
    Waging war on peaceful villages and peoples without provocation (murder).
    Intent to kill Aang on one occasion.
    Kidnapping Aang.
    Intent to torture Aang perhaps via starvation.
    Intent to have Zuko killed.
    Handing the loyal sages over to the fire lord as traitors.
    Killing moon spirit.
    Kidnapping moon spirit.
    Burning forests and towns.

    Heh, I agree. You kinda get the feeling that he's evil.. to the core. I don't think him "turning good" and helping Aang is a possible course of action for him.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [46]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 04/24/05
    • level: 33
    • rank: Borg Queen
    • posts: 3,709

    Falcondude123 wrote:
    How is it murder to kill someone so ruthless and unjust who attacks without cause and is responsible for the deaths of possibly hundreds of people? He starts every fight he gets involved with, steals other's lands and planned on "barely" keeping aang alive in the blue spirit. He is an evil murderer himself and killing him would be justice. To everyone who doesn't believe in the death penalty because you can't know for sure if you are killing the guilty, there is no doubt of Zhou's crimes. If it were me I would have torn him to pieces instead of peaceful drowning. Zhou's crimes(that we know of): Waging war on peaceful villages and peoples without provocation (murder). Intent to kill Aang on one occasion. Kidnapping Aang. Intent to torture Aang perhaps via starvation. Intent to have Zuko killed. Handing the loyal sages over to the fire lord as traitors. Killing moon spirit. Kidnapping moon spirit. Burning forests and towns.

    Justice and Vengence are two completely different things. Killing Zhao was unneccesary because for one his army had either been destroyed or ran away, he was beaten by Zuko and he was in the heart of the North Pole, he wasn't going anywhere. Justice would have been allowing him to be captured put on trial and punished that way. And let's not act like the Ocean Spirit was doing Justice now, the only person responsible for the moon's (temporary) death was Zhao. Yet the Ocean killed hundreds if not thousands of FN people that's not justice that's murder.

    But let's focus on Zhao for a moment the only thing that could justify the Ocean taking Zhao's life and having it be justified is if he had permanently killed the moon yet the moon was revived through Yue so there was no real crime there save for attempt. And for those that say Yue died she didn't her soul is part of the moon forever so she actually got an upgrade. The man had no way to escape the Water Tribe so there was no need to take maters into it's own hands that's wrong no matter what he did outside of the event doesn't justify murder. Doing what Zhao attempted to doesn't make the Ocean better than him it makes him just as bad if not worse.

    Now let's look at what the Ocean Spirit did to the FN soliders, they had nothing to do with the temporary death of the moon and yet the Ocean without any mercy killed hundreds possibly thousands of people for a crime they never did. And that makes the Ocean worse than Zhao because totaling all the evil things Zhao did in his life couldn't begin to compare to the murder count that the Ocean had in that one night. So please spare me your list of the things Zhao did because if we're going to count sins then the Ocean far surpassed Zhao in about ten minutes of blind hate.??We may see the soldiers??as being evil men yet they're just fighting for their country the same way the everyone else is this doesnt' make them evil. They were people that were willing to die for their country let's not forget if the FN lost the war what would happen to their country? It would be torn apart my the other nations. They don't want their country to loss because if they did their friends and families would all suffer because of it.

    For those that say Zhao deserved to die I can't help but think every character on that show would disagree because if they kill in cold blood that would make them just like the people they are fighting against. Even Zuko didn't think Zhao should be killed and Zuko had the most right out of anyone to want to see Zhao die and yet he tried to save him...That makes Zuko a better being than the Ocean Spirit if he did in fact kill Zhao.

    So to sum this all up no one deserved to have their life taken away from them on that night.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [47]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 05/15/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 8,889
    Correct But I can't help but feel Zhao was a fool but the ocean spirit was worse I get confuse in the whole "death in war vs. murder?? thing"
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Eman5805

    Eman5805

    [48]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 11/05/04
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 5,943
    No one EVER deserves to die to me EVER...no matter what crime they commit...anything more than life in prison is done in hubris and to me is playing God...but anyway...there is a WAR going on in Avatar??different rules apply...and unfortunately ppl, who physically have nothing to do with the actual reason for conflict, will die as a result none the less...that's why to quote General Sherman(who mercilessly burned down Atlanta) "War is Hell"...
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [49]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 04/24/05
    • level: 33
    • rank: Borg Queen
    • posts: 3,709
    And to quote Mr. Rogers: "Won't you be my Neighbor?"
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [50]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 05/15/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 8,889
    Is that a joke or some does it have a complicated meaning?P
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [51]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 05/15/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 8,889
    Is that a joke or some does it have a complicated meaning?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [52]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 04/24/05
    • level: 33
    • rank: Borg Queen
    • posts: 3,709

    I'll leave it up to the people to decide.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Murraymuzz

    Murraymuzz

    [53]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 10/02/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 297
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    Now let's look at what the Ocean Spirit did to the FN soliders, they had nothing to do with the temporary death of the moon and yet the Ocean without any mercy killed hundreds possibly thousands of people for a crime they never did. And that makes the Ocean worse than Zhao because totaling all the evil things Zhao did in his life couldn't begin to compare to the murder count that the Ocean had in that one night. So please spare me your list of the things Zhao did because if we're going to count sins then the Ocean far surpassed Zhao in about ten minutes of blind hate.??We may see the soldiers??as being evil men yet they're just fighting for their country the same way the everyone else is this doesnt' make them evil. They were people that were willing to die for their country let's not forget if the FN lost the war what would happen to their country? It would be torn apart my the other nations. They don't want their country to loss because if they did their friends and families would all suffer because of it.



    The Fire nation was attacking the innocent waterbenders who had managed to sit out of the war for so long, and the ocean spirit only scared them away, he pushed the ships and cut one, as i recall most of the fleet got away. However the ocean spirit had to protect the waterbenders who were attacked without any reason, i can gaurentee that more waterbenders died than firebenders.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [54]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 05/15/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 8,889
    Well look at this way the firebenders were doin their duty as the waterbenders did theres so you can't hold anything against anyone and who cares if te firebenders attacked the northen water tribe thet weren't some kind of unholy heathens who did it for enjoyment there passionate for the nation they served and I bet the firebenders had a taller death toll than waterbenders the northen water tribe wasn't that big to begain with.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Murraymuzz

    Murraymuzz

    [55]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 10/02/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 297
    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    Well look at this way the firebenders were doin their duty as the waterbenders did theres so you can't hold anything against anyone and who cares if te firebenders attacked the northen water tribe thet weren't some kind of unholy heathens who did it for enjoyment there passionate for the nation they served and I bet the firebenders had a taller death toll than waterbenders the northen water tribe wasn't that big to begain with.

    What duty are you talking about? Waterbenders needed to defend themselves and the firebenders have no choice in the matter because if they leave the army??they are killed.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [56]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 05/15/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 8,889
    IT was duty the fire nation fight for there country it's not always there evil, hell the Earth kingdom is worse but anyway the waterbenders defended themselves but believe it or not they were in war as well the fire nation had a right because they were also in the war so you can't blame anyone.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Murraymuzz

    Murraymuzz

    [57]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 10/02/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 297

    I can blame someone and i blame Ozai, as the head of the firenation all the deaths of the firebenders and waterbenders at the north pole??rest on him.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [58]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 05/15/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 8,889

    In a way it does but Zhao led the attack and of course it wasn't all his fault and Ozai may have just agreed on sieging the north.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Fronzel

    Fronzel

    [59]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 01/13/05
    • level: 15
    • rank: Ginsu Knife
    • posts: 1,210

    Colonel_Brian wrote:
    IT was duty the fire nation fight for there country it's not always there evil, hell the Earth kingdom is worse but anyway the waterbenders defended themselves but believe it or not they were in war as well the fire nation had a right because they were also in the war so you can't blame anyone.

    What a wishy-washy, believe-in-nothing, blas??, lay-down lazy thing to say. The Fire Nation is waging a war of imperialist aggression against the whole world, and have already annihilated one people in the course. Of course you can blame them! War is not OK! Loyally serving an evil cause is a sin.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Murraymuzz

    Murraymuzz

    [60]Oct 27, 2006
    • member since: 10/02/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 297
    Im not actually sure if the firebenders are loyal, i think it's kill or be killed with them.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.