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Zhao Dead or Not?

  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [1]Feb 10, 2006
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    OK now we all saw Zhao being pulled into the water by the ocean spirit yes? Well I've been thinking about this for some time and I don't think he's dead. My reasons are: When Sokka was taken by a spirit that was angry at people for destroying his forest the spirit still didn't kill him only kept him in a "Holding Area" of the spirit world. Now that spirit had a right to be angry due to the fact that his trees were killed. But the Ocean spirit can't make that same clam.

    Seeing the moon spirit die is what made it angry and that's why it started destroying the Fire Nation boats but then after seeing that the Moon had come back (meaning the Moon Spirit was alive again) the ocean spirit stopped attacking and withdrew back into the village. Now the reason I think that Zhao is alive is because killing Zhao now would be Murder and that would be evil. The Ocean spirit is all about balance and peace. If the Moon had stayed gone then maybe it would be just but with the Moon alive the Ocean spirit wouldn't be in the right for killing him. And I think the Ocean spirit knows that and he took Zhao to one of the "Holding Areas" Like Sokka was.

    Now my other reason for thinking that Zhao is alive is because of how the series finale will be set up. Now Aang, Katara, Sokka, Zuko, and everyone else will be fighting Ozai when the Comet arrives, and that fight will take place somewhere in the Fire Nation. Now here's something no one here has thought about. When the Comet comes Ozai will have already sent the mass of his army into the Capital of the Earth Kingdom to use the power to destroy it once and for all. Now here is where it's going to get complicated, Even if Aang and Co. beat the Fire Lord and Zuko becomes the new Fire Lord how are they going to stop the Fire Nation from destroying the Earth Capital anyway? There is no way of sending a message to the battle field explaining what has happened and even if the message would magically get there very few would believe and continue the attack.

    Now here comes Zhao, Zhao is the only person we have seen in the entire series who has control over the Fire Nation military, not only does he have authority but a massive amount of it. Now here is where the "Holding Area" comes into play. During his time in the "Area" he becomes good and agrees to help Zuko and Co. Then he goes to the Capital of the Earth Kingdom the same time Zuko, Aang and the others go to the Fire Nation. They beat the Fire Lord and Zhao orders everyone to stop their attack on Bai Sing Sei. Now since he has such military power he may have the full authority to do such a thing. Then the show can end.

    Now why do I think he will stop the Fire Nation? Well the writers have gone out of their way to make Zhao very powerful in the military yes? Well I don't believe the soul reason for this is so he could amass the army to attack the North Pole. Because if that was the writer???s plans then there would have been no reason to have Zhao be promoted from Commander to Admiral since he would have had the authority to command the Captains with his Commander Authority. But at the rank of Admiral he might have the power to stop an army directly under the order of the Fire Lord. He is the only logic possibility to stop the Fire Nation from attacking and ultimately (With the power from the Comet)destroy the Earth Kingdom Capital.

    *Takes a deep breath*

    Well there you have it. My thoughts on the subject.

    Yes that's right I thought long and hard about it.
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  • Avatar of eneterprise

    eneterprise

    [2]Feb 10, 2006
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    i though we agree that he was dead,,but who knows maybe he'll comes back.. what do guys think?
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  • Avatar of Silent_Skies

    Silent_Skies

    [3]Feb 11, 2006
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    I think we already have a convo about this set up. But if you want an answer, then yes, I believe that Zhao is alive. He didn't drown, he merely fled.
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  • Avatar of torrasque2003

    torrasque2003

    [4]Feb 11, 2006
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    I'm not sure Zhao has that much influence on the Fire nation military. I mean there must be a clearly defined chain of command, and I'm pretty sure that Zhao is not second in command. In the real military orders are sent down from the highest ranking individual and carried out. The trained fire nation will not stop attacking just because a well known and well respected general tells them to, if they are not under his direct command. (Which they wouldn't be)
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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [5]Feb 11, 2006
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    Well we have never seen Zhao take orders from any one and Fire Lord Ozai himself sent a massage to him telling him he was promoted. I think that he is second in command of the army.
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  • Avatar of karatewolfpunk

    karatewolfpunk

    [6]Feb 11, 2006
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    Well we have never seen Zhao take orders from any one and Fire Lord Ozai himself sent a massage to him telling him he was promoted. I think that he is second in command of the army.


    I'm sure you meant message
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  • Avatar of sluggmunki_tx

    sluggmunki_tx

    [7]Feb 11, 2006
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    karatewolfpunk wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    Well we have never seen Zhao take orders from any one and Fire Lord Ozai himself sent a massage to him telling him he was promoted. I think that he is second in command of the army.


    I'm sure you meant message


    too.
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  • Avatar of ILurvPenguins

    ILurvPenguins

    [8]Feb 11, 2006
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    I'm not convinced...your evidence is very good, and your theory very well thought-out...but I still think Zhao is dead...my only evidence for this is that Azula is on her way (and her voice debut is in the first eppy...-so excited- ) and I think that Zhao wasn't working out too well so they killed him to make room for Zula. I mean think about it...Zhao would have made a great nemises for Zuko....IF WE KNEW WHY THEY HATED EACHOTHER!!!! Other than the whole "poking-fun-at-Zuko's-daddy-complex" thing, Zhao didn't do much to Zuko (that we saw...). And we know that Zhao giving Zuko his scar is out of the question, cause even Zhao pulling a Darth Vader on us ("Luke...I am your father!") isn't possible....he was in the crowd with Azula and Iroh....just a few of my points...I still respect your opinion and recognize that it is possible....

    And now that I'm done being sophistacated and crap....PENGUINS!!!!! ^_^
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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [9]Feb 11, 2006
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    ILurvPenguins wrote:
    I'm not convinced...your evidence is very good, and your theory very well thought-out...but I still think Zhao is dead...my only evidence for this is that Azula is on her way (and her voice debut is in the first eppy...-so excited- ) and I think that Zhao wasn't working out too well so they killed him to make room for Zula. I mean think about it...Zhao would have made a great nemises for Zuko....IF WE KNEW WHY THEY HATED EACHOTHER!!!! Other than the whole "poking-fun-at-Zuko's-daddy-complex" thing, Zhao didn't do much to Zuko (that we saw...). And we know that Zhao giving Zuko his scar is out of the question, cause even Zhao pulling a Darth Vader on us ("Luke...I am your father!") isn't possible....he was in the crowd with Azula and Iroh....just a few of my points...I still respect your opinion and recognize that it is possible....

    And now that I'm done being sophistacated and crap....PENGUINS!!!!! ^_^


    Well we all knew that Zhao didn't scare Zuko so thanks for making that half of your paragraph. Then here's a question for you "How will the Fire Nation be stopped before they destroy the Earth Capital?"

    Since all the main characters will be fighting Ozai there won't be anyone with the authority to stop them. Zhao is the only logical option.

    Give me an explanation on how the writers are going to stop the Fire Nation when the Characters are on the other side of the world.
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  • Avatar of ILurvPenguins

    ILurvPenguins

    [10]Feb 11, 2006
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    ILurvPenguins wrote:
    I'm not convinced...your evidence is very good, and your theory very well thought-out...but I still think Zhao is dead...my only evidence for this is that Azula is on her way (and her voice debut is in the first eppy...-so excited- ) and I think that Zhao wasn't working out too well so they killed him to make room for Zula. I mean think about it...Zhao would have made a great nemises for Zuko....IF WE KNEW WHY THEY HATED EACHOTHER!!!! Other than the whole "poking-fun-at-Zuko's-daddy-complex" thing, Zhao didn't do much to Zuko (that we saw...). And we know that Zhao giving Zuko his scar is out of the question, cause even Zhao pulling a Darth Vader on us ("Luke...I am your father!") isn't possible....he was in the crowd with Azula and Iroh....just a few of my points...I still respect your opinion and recognize that it is possible....

    And now that I'm done being sophistacated and crap....PENGUINS!!!!! ^_^


    Well we all knew that Zhao didn't scare Zuko so thanks for making that half of your paragraph. Then here's a question for you "How will the Fire Nation be stopped before they destroy the Earth Capital?"

    Since all the main characters will be fighting Ozai there won't be anyone with the authority to stop them. Zhao is the only logical option.

    Give me an explanation on how the writers are going to stop the Fire Nation when the Characters are on the other side of the world.


    Sorry about making Zhao's inability to scar Zuko half my paragraph...^_^;;; and to answer your question: Who says the Fire Navy's gonna be at the Earth Kingdom Capital?" Sure it seems logical, but you're assuming...(and you know what they say about assuming ).
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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [11]Feb 11, 2006
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    ILurvPenguins wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    ILurvPenguins wrote:
    I'm not convinced...your evidence is very good, and your theory very well thought-out...but I still think Zhao is dead...my only evidence for this is that Azula is on her way (and her voice debut is in the first eppy...-so excited- ) and I think that Zhao wasn't working out too well so they killed him to make room for Zula. I mean think about it...Zhao would have made a great nemises for Zuko....IF WE KNEW WHY THEY HATED EACHOTHER!!!! Other than the whole "poking-fun-at-Zuko's-daddy-complex" thing, Zhao didn't do much to Zuko (that we saw...). And we know that Zhao giving Zuko his scar is out of the question, cause even Zhao pulling a Darth Vader on us ("Luke...I am your father!") isn't possible....he was in the crowd with Azula and Iroh....just a few of my points...I still respect your opinion and recognize that it is possible....

    And now that I'm done being sophistacated and crap....PENGUINS!!!!! ^_^


    Well we all knew that Zhao didn't scare Zuko so thanks for making that half of your paragraph. Then here's a question for you "How will the Fire Nation be stopped before they destroy the Earth Capital?"

    Since all the main characters will be fighting Ozai there won't be anyone with the authority to stop them. Zhao is the only logical option.

    Give me an explanation on how the writers are going to stop the Fire Nation when the Characters are on the other side of the world.


    Sorry about making Zhao's inability to scar Zuko half my paragraph...^_^;;; and to answer your question: Who says the Fire Navy's gonna be at the Earth Kingdom Capital?" Sure it seems logical, but you're assuming...(and you know what they say about assuming ).


    I'm not assuming that's the Fire Nation's plan. In the Blue Spirit when Zhao is speaking to the army he says: "This is the year that Sozin???s comet returns to grant us its power. This is the year the fire nation breaks through the walls of Ba-Seng-Se and burns the city to the ground." So that proves my point that's the Fire Nation's plan.

    And what do you think the Fire Nation would do? Gain ultimate power for a day or so and spend it playing Hop Scotch?
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  • Avatar of pooldude256

    pooldude256

    [12]Feb 12, 2006
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    You all still think Zuko will help Aang don't you? Tisk tisk tisk...your in for a big letdown
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  • Avatar of Silent_Skies

    Silent_Skies

    [13]Feb 12, 2006
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    What makes you say that? Are you hiding something from us...? ^ ^ ; ;
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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [14]Feb 13, 2006
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    No Pool's just full of cr*p.
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  • Avatar of FreakishChild

    FreakishChild

    [15]Feb 14, 2006
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    pooldude256 wrote:
    You all still think Zuko will help Aang don't you? Tisk tisk tisk...your in for a big letdown


    Not second season anyway, and there's no way in Hell Zuko will teach Aang Firebending. Prince of Pricks is still a pupil himself. It's still not easy for me to accept Pukka let Katara finish teaching Aang. She's skilled, but she is glaringly NOT A MASTER.

    And for Iroh... I have a feeling by the time Aang's ready to learn Firebending Iroh will be with his son.

    I'm hoping the Deserter STAYS Aang's teacher. But I also heard somewhere Aang will have multiple Firebending teachers.
    Edited on 02/14/2006 10:38am
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  • Avatar of book_lover

    book_lover

    [16]Feb 14, 2006
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    Maybe the fire sprit meet Zhoa, and brought him back, but more powerfull. *dull theory*

    (sorry, didn't spell cheack this one!)
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  • Avatar of totallydude

    totallydude

    [17]Feb 16, 2006
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    i hat zhao dont bring him back.
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  • Avatar of ellistein

    ellistein

    [18]Feb 16, 2006
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    When Sokka was taken by a spirit that was angry at people for destroying his forest the spirit still didn't kill him only kept him in a "Holding Area" of the spirit world. Now that spirit had a right to be angry due to the fact that his trees were killed. But the Ocean spirit can't make that same clam.


    Ok I could see how keeping Zhao a prisoner would be a possible future asset. Maybe somehow brainwash or enslave him to do the spirit's bidding. However instead of killing trees the firenation was killing people, the spirirt had even more reason than Haybii to take revenge.

    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    Now the reason I think that Zhao is alive is because killing Zhao now would be Murder and that would be evil. The Ocean spirit is all about balance and peace.


    Here I really disagree. First off, the firenation had seiged the northern water tribe for two days, I'm sure they killed a lot of people in that time. Next, the firenation has already thrown the world out off balance. In a sense killing Zhao, who is and extremely evil and destructive character, will help slow the firenation's assault and help to restore balance. Now, yes the ocean/moon spirits represent balance but remember what these two spirits represent. Yin and Yang male/female, strong/weak, and serenity/anger. The white fish representing the calmer half was not able to balance the other half, the half that attacked the invading army. And when I mean attacked.....I mean annihilated, it swept people into the ocean who most likely drowned from their heavy armor and weapons or succumbed to the freezing water and died from hypothermia. Then the spirit cut a boat in half which I'm sure cleaved a few people apart. So why after killing all these people would the ocean spirit not kill the person who attacked it's companion? Any mythology you will ever read about there is one BIG take home lessons. The gods/spirits are not very forgiving nor are they swayed from their decisions easily.

    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    When the Comet comes Ozai will have already sent the mass of his army into the Capital of the Earth Kingdom to use the power to destroy it once and for all. Now here is where it's going to get complicated, Even if Aang and Co. beat the Fire Lord and Zuko becomes the new Fire Lord how are they going to stop the Fire Nation from destroying the Earth Capital anyway?


    Very good point and I can't believe I haven't thought of this problem. Either Aang will have to defeat the firelord well before the comet arrives or we are just going to have to hope that Ba-Sin-Sei, or however you spell it, is able to withstand the attack. Its lasted the entire war so far. I wonder if was attacked the first time that the comet came around? The town has been there a long time, right?

    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    But at the rank of Admiral he might have the power to stop an army directly under the order of the Fire Lord. He is the only logic possibility to stop the Fire Nation from attacking and ultimately (With the power from the Comet)destroy the Earth Kingdom Capital.


    One problem with this theory is that at this point he's being reported as killed-in-action or missing-in-action. And the word of the second highest ranking military personal going missing in the middle of seige against another nation is gonna spread though the army extremely fast. If he just suddenly shows up to a enormous battle no one is going to listen to him. They'll either think that its some for of enemy ploy, or that he deserted the fire navy.

    All in all my two cents says that Zhoa is feeding fish or pushing up snow right now.
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  • Avatar of mellomuse

    mellomuse

    [19]Feb 16, 2006
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    ellistein wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    When the Comet comes Ozai will have already sent the mass of his army into the Capital of the Earth Kingdom to use the power to destroy it once and for all. Now here is where it's going to get complicated, Even if Aang and Co. beat the Fire Lord and Zuko becomes the new Fire Lord how are they going to stop the Fire Nation from destroying the Earth Capital anyway?


    Very good point and I can't believe I haven't thought of this problem. Either Aang will have to defeat the firelord well before the comet arrives or we are just going to have to hope that Ba-Sin-Sei, or however you spell it, is able to withstand the attack. Its lasted the entire war so far. I wonder if was attacked the first time that the comet came around? The town has been there a long time, right?


    Hey, maybe there will be some conclusion like "Lord of the Rings." In other words, Aang (or Aang and a certain other person) could infiltrate the FN capital and confront the Fire Lord while others (Katara/Sokka/etc.) are in Ba-Sin-Sei leading a counterattack against the Fire Nation army.

    Also: in episode 7 (Winter Solstice Part 1), it was revealed that Iroh had once been a great general and that he led a seige on Ba-Sin-Sei that lasted for 600 days but was ultimately unsuccessful. So the city must be quite something.
    Edited on 02/16/2006 5:50pm
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    Airbenderluver

    [20]Feb 19, 2006
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    I think Zhao could have swam back up after aang pulled him down.
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