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Avatar: The Last Airbender Forums

Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Young students, old masters.

  • Avatar of TitanPredator

    TitanPredator

    [1]Sep 5, 2008
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    Did anyone else notice that nearly all the children in the series are extremely strong and have already nearly surpasses the great masters, who where already training in bending for like 50 years or something. Bumi even for 100 years! I suppose at least. I mean, Katara nearly surpasses Pakku, arguably she already did, Same goes for Toph and Bumi and for Azula and Iroh, Ozai and Jeong Jeong. I think it's a bit strange that some kids from age 10-16 have nearly surpassed some of the greatest masters alive today. Some of them are even legends!

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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [2]Sep 5, 2008
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    Well, I don't think Azula surpassed Ozai. She still has to go through all those arm movements to get the lightning. He can summon up lightning almost instantly. And I'm probubly only saying this because I love him but Zuko had to at least surpass Jeong Jeong.
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [3]Sep 5, 2008
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    Oh my God! I swear I noticed that too! How all of the gang and main characters are young people, and yet, they are better than benders who are like 50+ years older than them... I've noticed that they defeat alot of older people on a regular basis! Nice to see you again by the way!

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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [4]Sep 5, 2008
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:

    Oh my God! I swear I noticed that too! How all of the gang and main characters are young people, and yet, they are better than benders who are like 50+ years older than them... I've noticed that they defeat alot of older people on a regular basis! Nice to see you again by the way!

    Actually, Aang;s older than all of them
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  • Avatar of MCMLXVI

    MCMLXVI

    [5]Sep 5, 2008
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    Pakku defeated Katara, and the swamp people fought to a draw once they recognized their kin.

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  • Avatar of TitanPredator

    TitanPredator

    [6]Sep 5, 2008
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    gilvatar wrote:
    Well, I don't think Azula surpassed Ozai. She still has to go through all those arm movements to get the lightning. He can summon up lightning almost instantly. And I'm probubly only saying this because I love him but Zuko had to at least surpass Jeong Jeong.

    Azula has not YET surpasses Ozai, and Iroh. Maybe not even Jeong Jeong, but she will. Zuko hasn't surpassed Jeong Jeong. He isn't that strong.

    But personaly I think it's just because it's a children series, so the main characters are children. And the children who watch the sereis don't like weak main characters. So I think it's also a bit on purpose. But I think it's a bit weird.

    BUT there could also be another answer, and that is that the kids in Avatar haven't surpasses/nearly surpassed the old masters, but maybe we think they did, because we saw them bend a lot more.

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  • Avatar of FireLordZuko93

    FireLordZuko93

    [7]Sep 5, 2008
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    MCMLXVI wrote:

    Pakku defeated Katara, and the swamp people fought to a draw once they recognized their kin.

    Pakku defeated Katara before he even taught her. She barly knew waterbending and she was putting up a good fight. Pakku, i beleive, was holding back quite a bit though.
    Edited on 09/05/2008 10:41am
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [8]Sep 5, 2008
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    MCMLXVI wrote:

    Pakku defeated Katara, and the swamp people fought to a draw once they recognized their kin.

    When all was said and done, by the end of the series, Katara was without argument the most powerful Waterbender we will ever lay our eyes on...
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [9]Sep 5, 2008
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    TitanPredator wrote:

    gilvatar wrote:
    Well, I don't think Azula surpassed Ozai. She still has to go through all those arm movements to get the lightning. He can summon up lightning almost instantly. And I'm probubly only saying this because I love him but Zuko had to at least surpass Jeong Jeong.

    Azula has not YET surpasses Ozai, and Iroh. Maybe not even Jeong Jeong, but she will. Zuko hasn't surpassed Jeong Jeong. He isn't that strong.

    But personaly I think it's just because it's a children series, so the main characters are children. And the children who watch the sereis don't like weak main characters. So I think it's also a bit on purpose. But I think it's a bit weird.

    BUT there could also be another answer, and that is that the kids in Avatar haven't surpasses/nearly surpassed the old masters, but maybe we think they did, because we saw them bend a lot more.

    It's possible, but I don't think so... I just think that the kids are remarkable benders... I don't really think age and experience should count in these particular situations, if your a powerful bender, you are a powerful bender... And we have to take into account, that these men are pretty old, they are all way past their prime, and most of them are probably over 60, the younger generation are more athletic, more agile and fresher Human Beings... Now if these men (and women (Hama)), were still in their prime it would be a different story...
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  • Avatar of TitanPredator

    TitanPredator

    [10]Sep 5, 2008
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    TitanPredator wrote:

    gilvatar wrote:
    Well, I don't think Azula surpassed Ozai. She still has to go through all those arm movements to get the lightning. He can summon up lightning almost instantly. And I'm probubly only saying this because I love him but Zuko had to at least surpass Jeong Jeong.

    Azula has not YET surpasses Ozai, and Iroh. Maybe not even Jeong Jeong, but she will. Zuko hasn't surpassed Jeong Jeong. He isn't that strong.

    But personaly I think it's just because it's a children series, so the main characters are children. And the children who watch the sereis don't like weak main characters. So I think it's also a bit on purpose. But I think it's a bit weird.

    BUT there could also be another answer, and that is that the kids in Avatar haven't surpasses/nearly surpassed the old masters, but maybe we think they did, because we saw them bend a lot more.

    It's possible, but I don't think so... I just think that the kids are remarkable benders... I don't really think age and experience should count in these particular situations, if your a powerful bender, you are a powerful bender... And we have to take into account, that these men are pretty old, they are all way past their prime, and most of them are probably over 60, the younger generation are more athletic, more agile and fresher Human Beings... Now if these men (and women (Hama)), were still in their prime it would be a different story...

    So you think they all happen to be progidy's? Could be, but that are lot's of progidy's with EXTREME LOT of talen. Esspecially Toph for that matter. But you think Jeong Jeong, Iroh, Bumi, Hama and Pakku have past their prime... That makes sense. They are all 60 or older, so 20 years back they would be stronger and more agile.

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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [11]Sep 5, 2008
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    TitanPredator wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    TitanPredator wrote:

    gilvatar wrote:
    Well, I don't think Azula surpassed Ozai. She still has to go through all those arm movements to get the lightning. He can summon up lightning almost instantly. And I'm probubly only saying this because I love him but Zuko had to at least surpass Jeong Jeong.

    Azula has not YET surpasses Ozai, and Iroh. Maybe not even Jeong Jeong, but she will. Zuko hasn't surpassed Jeong Jeong. He isn't that strong.

    But personaly I think it's just because it's a children series, so the main characters are children. And the children who watch the sereis don't like weak main characters. So I think it's also a bit on purpose. But I think it's a bit weird.

    BUT there could also be another answer, and that is that the kids in Avatar haven't surpasses/nearly surpassed the old masters, but maybe we think they did, because we saw them bend a lot more.

    It's possible, but I don't think so... I just think that the kids are remarkable benders... I don't really think age and experience should count in these particular situations, if your a powerful bender, you are a powerful bender... And we have to take into account, that these men are pretty old, they are all way past their prime, and most of them are probably over 60, the younger generation are more athletic, more agile and fresher Human Beings... Now if these men (and women (Hama)), were still in their prime it would be a different story...

    So you think they all happen to be progidy's? Could be, but that are lot's of progidy's with EXTREME LOT of talen. Esspecially Toph for that matter. But you think Jeong Jeong, Iroh, Bumi, Hama and Pakku have past their prime... That makes sense. They are all 60 or older, so 20 years back they would be stronger and more agile.

    I didn't mean ALL of them... I am talking about the main kids, like Aang, Katara, Toph and Azula... I didn't mean it as in someone like Haru being stronger than Bumi... And yes, I do think that all the people I mentioned happen to be prodigy's... They ARE the main chacaters afterall... And they do have alot of "EXTREME" talent, Blood-Bending (Katara), Metal-Bending (Toph), Lightning and Blue Fire (Azula), all take extreme, vast amounts of talent and ability... I think if the old masters were in their prime, it would be a greater battle... I am not sure on who would win, as we can only PREDICT what they were like in their prime.
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  • Avatar of WiseLad

    WiseLad

    [12]Sep 5, 2008
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    TitanPredator wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    TitanPredator wrote:

    gilvatar wrote:
    Well, I don't think Azula surpassed Ozai. She still has to go through all those arm movements to get the lightning. He can summon up lightning almost instantly. And I'm probubly only saying this because I love him but Zuko had to at least surpass Jeong Jeong.

    Azula has not YET surpasses Ozai, and Iroh. Maybe not even Jeong Jeong, but she will. Zuko hasn't surpassed Jeong Jeong. He isn't that strong.

    But personaly I think it's just because it's a children series, so the main characters are children. And the children who watch the sereis don't like weak main characters. So I think it's also a bit on purpose. But I think it's a bit weird.

    BUT there could also be another answer, and that is that the kids in Avatar haven't surpasses/nearly surpassed the old masters, but maybe we think they did, because we saw them bend a lot more.

    It's possible, but I don't think so... I just think that the kids are remarkable benders... I don't really think age and experience should count in these particular situations, if your a powerful bender, you are a powerful bender... And we have to take into account, that these men are pretty old, they are all way past their prime, and most of them are probably over 60, the younger generation are more athletic, more agile and fresher Human Beings... Now if these men (and women (Hama)), were still in their prime it would be a different story...

    So you think they all happen to be progidy's? Could be, but that are lot's of progidy's with EXTREME LOT of talen. Esspecially Toph for that matter. But you think Jeong Jeong, Iroh, Bumi, Hama and Pakku have past their prime... That makes sense. They are all 60 or older, so 20 years back they would be stronger and more agile.

    I didn't mean ALL of them... I am talking about the main kids, like Aang, Katara, Toph and Azula... I didn't mean it as in someone like Haru being stronger than Bumi... And yes, I do think that all the people I mentioned happen to be prodigy's... They ARE the main chacaters afterall... And they do have alot of "EXTREME" talent, Blood-Bending (Katara), Metal-Bending (Toph), Lightning and Blue Fire (Azula), all take extreme, vast amounts of talent and ability... I think if the old masters were in their prime, it would be a greater battle... I am not sure on who would win, as we can only PREDICT what they were like in their prime.
    Raw potential is different than actual knowledge

    the protagonists have the "extra special" that allows them to assimilate things faster than others, and that would make them in the future "great masters"

    it is easy to see it more clearly if we put in the equation someone all of you forgot just because he is the "non-bender", Sokka

    these are the words of Piandao

    ----------------------------------

    *before their battle

    Piandao: Sokka, when you first arrived, you were so unsure. You even seemed down on yourself. But I saw something in you right away. I saw a heart as strong as a lion turtle, and twice as big. And as we trained, it wasn't your skills that impressed me. (Fat kneels to Piandao and gives him the sword) No, it certainly wasn't your skills. (Sokka looks down in shame) You showed something beyond that. (unsheathes the sword, showing its black blade) Creativity, versatility, intelligence…these are the traits that define a great swordsman. And these are the traits that define you. (sheathes the sword, kneels and gives it to Sokka) You told me you didn't know if you were worthy, but I believe that you are more worthy than any man I have ever trained.

    than later on after the battle

    Piandao: Oh, I've been around a while. You pick things up. (wipes the dirt off his face with the cloth) Of course, I knew from the beginning that Sokka was Water Tribe. You might want to think of a better Fire Nation cover name. Try "Lee." There's a million "Lees" (sips his drink).

    Katara: But why would you agree to train someone from the Water Tribe

    Piandao: The way of the sword doesn't belong to any one nation. Knowledge of the arts belongs to us all. (gives his sword to Fat. He pulls Sokka's sword out of the ground and gives it back to Sokka) Sokka, you must continue your training on your own. If you stay on this path, I know that one day you will become an even greater master than I am.

    -----------------------------

    basically is the same with the "benders"

    Toph has become stronger thanks to her strenghts caused by her blindness(and in some cases, her blindness can be a weakness), but I don't think she could beat Bumi, and most people speculate that Bumi has learned to listen with his ears and that he might at least have the concept of metal-bending if not the use of it

    Katara has become stronger, probably because her eagerness and intelligence; and she having to learn on her own until she met Aang. and even after learning bloodbending from someone else BTW, I don't think she would beat Pakku, perhaps now it will get to a draw, but defeat him? not yet, but she will surpass him someday

    Azula had the natural talent and most of all hunger of power that made her someone that would try to put attention and learn from the things she saw, but she never surpassed her father

    Zuko has perseverance and the spirit of never giving up even when he is down, at first his handicap was that he was not sure of exactly what he did want, many times his goals were from what others expected from him. But after the eclipse, and firebending masters, he saw that honor comes out of what you make of yourself, not of "getting approval" from others

    unless Azula "finds goodness within herself", I can easily see Zuko becoming vastly superior to her sister

    Mai, Ty Lee and Suki are highly skilled warriors, and until recently sokka could not be "their equal". all 4 I can't see beating Piandao, but I think all 4 would become great masters on their own right

    Sokka being the stronger not because he is a "guy", but because he has the eagerness to learn from different styles and incorporating all of them into his way to battle

    we saw that as the avatar Aang is stronger than any other mortal, but in "raw avatar" he has the skills he learned PLUS whatever other past avatars learned, as a raw avatar is all avatars in one body, but at the final part of his battle we can see that his eyes didn't stay lit up, they only lit up when he reached for his avatar state powers, and after that he used the movements Aang learned but in a stronger form.

    so he will still have to learn new techniques and ways from Toph, Katara and Zuko and other masters; and he could learn one or 2 things from Sokka and incorporate them into his bending

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  • Avatar of sportsdude206

    sportsdude206

    [13]Sep 5, 2008
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    TitanPredator wrote:

    Did anyone else notice that nearly all the children in the series are extremely strong and have already nearly surpasses the great masters, who where already training in bending for like 50 years or something. Bumi even for 100 years! I suppose at least. I mean, Katara nearly surpasses Pakku, arguably she already did, Same goes for Toph and Bumi and for Azula and Iroh, Ozai and Jeong Jeong. I think it's a bit strange that some kids from age 10-16 have nearly surpassed some of the greatest masters alive today. Some of them are even legends!

    That is what I call a plot hole. I basically tried to ignore this fact while I was watching the series

    *raises flame shield*

    But then again, I personally think that Bumi > Toph; Pakku > Katara; and Ozai, Iroh, and Jeong Jeong > Azula; so I'll call it a medium-sized hole.

    *lowers shield ever-so-slightly*

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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [14]Sep 5, 2008
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    Hey, I've got an interesting question. in TPK Aang admits that he needs more firebending training and Toph says he needs more earth. So here's my question, if Aang fought Zuko with just firebending and no avatar spirit, who would win? And if Aang fought Toph with just earth and no avatar spirit, who would win?
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    sportsdude206

    [15]Sep 5, 2008
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    gilvatar wrote:
    Hey, I've got an interesting question. in TPK Aang admits that he needs more firebending training and Toph says he needs more earth. So here's my question, if Aang fought Zuko with just firebending and no avatar spirit, who would win? And if Aang fought Toph with just earth and no avatar spirit, who would win?

    Zuko and Toph would.

    Zuko and Aang became almost equal in firebending after the FBM episode, but I think Zuko would win because he's more ruthless.

    Toph would win because she's just plain better.

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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [16]Sep 5, 2008
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    I agree. But I obviously disagree with you on a huge number of your battle predictions... I believe that Katara is already better than Pakku or atleast his equal (Although I think better), and I also believe Toph to be better than Bumi... I put all my effort of these arguments into the "Most Powerful Benders" Thread... I shall copy and paste them into this one very shortly.
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [17]Sep 5, 2008
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    I agree. But I obviously disagree with you on a huge number of your battle predictions... I believe that Katara is already better than Pakku or atleast his equal (Although I think better), and I also believe Toph to be better than Bumi... I put all my effort of these arguments into the "Most Powerful Benders" Thread... I shall copy and paste them into this one very shortly.
    This was directed at WiseLad.
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  • Avatar of Water78

    Water78

    [18]Sep 5, 2008
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    If i ate chicken would a cow try to kill me. If i ate chicken on thanksgiving would a turkey try to peck me to death. If this dramatic chipmunk started a war with momo would appa spank them with liver. If aang aang wanted could he learn the ways of the force. Iroh spanked his snake when in jail. In this picture if u were that fat kid what would be going through ur mind as the car behind u called christine which has a life of its own was trying to kill u. Would u become friends with He is very lonley. He has no friends that's why he is so hot. It a boy named lisa was coming at u with a spork would buy a new shoe to hid his wetness. My cat had an accident right on me. I heard screaming coming from mommy and daddy's bedroom today. I cant drowned my fish. I'll race u to the moon. Hannah Montana was kiled by a comment. Juno at her licked and killed my martian that was living in bobby's pants. He has a chocolate factory in the bathroom. I smell gas coming from the licker cabnet. Kevin ate my jam. Who drank cindy lou's vodka? Would it be all right to cut off ur uni-balls in kensington. Who's the phone. The Joker killed bobby. I like smelly things. The guru wants u to tickle his pickle. I think someone poisoned the water

    After all that Katara would still kick all of our a$$ssss

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  • Avatar of WiseLad

    WiseLad

    [19]Sep 5, 2008
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    assuming Chris Long (NFL) has not taken wrestling

    in raw power Chris Long will probably beat Kurt Angle, but in a true wrestling match(not WWE style)Kurt would win for having so much experience in wrestling

    as many people have explained, one sees something that is constantly seen as more umm "mythical" than something that is unseen

    many people didn't think that highly(except for those who really understood the game) of Vlad Guerrero while he was in Montreal as he was not seen that often

    but as soon as he was seen more when he joined the Angels team he became a "bigger star"

    same with A-Rod, he was a "star" while in Texas, but "magically" became even bigger when he became a Yankee

    or fact that many people think of the NCAA football "Pac-10" as "USC plus a whole bunch of weak teams" even when usually pac-10 beat teams of other conferences thought as "stronger" because most people watch teams in the eastern and middle part of USA in TV, as games played in the west coast are for them "too late"
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [20]Sep 5, 2008
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    TitanPredator wrote:

    Did anyone else notice that nearly all the children in the series are extremely strong and have already nearly surpasses the great masters, who where already training in bending for like 50 years or something. Bumi even for 100 years! I suppose at least. I mean, Katara nearly surpasses Pakku, arguably she already did, Same goes for Toph and Bumi and for Azula and Iroh, Ozai and Jeong Jeong. I think it's a bit strange that some kids from age 10-16 have nearly surpassed some of the greatest masters alive today. Some of them are even legends!


    Honeslty, the reason behind this is to make the character more relatable (dude, wtf, why does that look so messed up?) to the targeted audience. This give kids a feeling of power and superiority to their elders. It's just basically an ego boost to the little ones, I think.
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