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Who else doesn't like Zuko?

  • Avatar of carcrashheart17

    carcrashheart17

    [1]Jul 13, 2010
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    I know this is 'old news' and all but I'm new to this site. Who else thinks that Zuko going to the good side was a complete waste? I mean I hated the character from the get go. All he is a pathetic person who can't seem to get a grip on reality and who doesn't appreciate his amazing uncle. He can't decide what side he is on and is a pointless time waster of a cry baby. Am I the only one who feels this way?? And please no "but hes hot!" I'm heard that argument to the point of gagging.

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  • Avatar of Iamdapwnage

    Iamdapwnage

    [2]Jul 13, 2010
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    Zuko is actually my favourite character. He is one of the most developed characters, IMO. His complexity is awesome, and it really shows who he is. Zuko is supposed to be pathetic, because it sets up his arc to finally helping the Avatar.
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  • Avatar of carcrashheart17

    carcrashheart17

    [3]Jul 14, 2010
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    Well, if you like him...why did you post here? This is for the Zuko haters. not lovers. Sorry. But I'm not about to change my mind any time soon and you don't seem like you will either. soo...
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  • Avatar of T7F

    T7F

    [4]Jul 14, 2010
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    Why would you hate Zuko? He is a complex character with an interesting backstory.


    PS I'm a guy not a fan girl.

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  • Avatar of carcrashheart17

    carcrashheart17

    [5]Jul 14, 2010
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    At least. I can't stand it when the best point someone can make is "He is hot." I just don't like him. Its a waste. He is a bad guy. They should have NEVER accepted him into the good side. He turns his back on his uncle! I mean come on! He is so pointless with his constant endless rambling. Even when he's officially on the 'good side' he encourages Katara to blood bend. So he is still bad at heart which made the constant dragging and horrifically boring 'inner struggle' pointless. I simply don't understand people fascination with him. Bad things happen to people all the time and they don't go psycho and feel a need to 'regain their honor' they suck it up and get over it. Because their good at heart.
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  • Avatar of T7F

    T7F

    [6]Jul 14, 2010
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    carcrashheart17 wrote:
    At least. I can't stand it when the best point someone can make is "He is hot." I just don't like him. Its a waste. He is a bad guy. They should have NEVER accepted him into the good side. He turns his back on his uncle! I mean come on! He is so pointless with his constant endless rambling. Even when he's officially on the 'good side' he encourages Katara to blood bend. So he is still bad at heart which made the constant dragging and horrifically boring 'inner struggle' pointless. I simply don't understand people fascination with him. Bad things happen to people all the time and they don't go psycho and feel a need to 'regain their honor' they suck it up and get over it. Because their good at heart.


    If you are calling his honor boring, then you are calling the whole show boring that is what it was all about

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  • Avatar of carcrashheart17

    carcrashheart17

    [7]Jul 14, 2010
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    T7F wrote:


    carcrashheart17 wrote:
    At least. I can't stand it when the best point someone can make is "He is hot." I just don't like him. Its a waste. He is a bad guy. They should have NEVER accepted him into the good side. He turns his back on his uncle! I mean come on! He is so pointless with his constant endless rambling. Even when he's officially on the 'good side' he encourages Katara to blood bend. So he is still bad at heart which made the constant dragging and horrifically boring 'inner struggle' pointless. I simply don't understand people fascination with him. Bad things happen to people all the time and they don't go psycho and feel a need to 'regain their honor' they suck it up and get over it. Because their good at heart.


    If you are calling his honor boring, then you are calling the whole show boring that is what it was all about


    Really?? Cuz last time i checked the show was called Avatar: The Last Air Bender, not Avatar: Zuko the Fire Bender. :/

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  • Avatar of T7F

    T7F

    [8]Jul 14, 2010
    • member since: 06/22/10
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    carcrashheart17 wrote:


    T7F wrote:


    carcrashheart17 wrote:
    At least. I can't stand it when the best point someone can make is "He is hot." I just don't like him. Its a waste. He is a bad guy. They should have NEVER accepted him into the good side. He turns his back on his uncle! I mean come on! He is so pointless with his constant endless rambling. Even when he's officially on the 'good side' he encourages Katara to blood bend. So he is still bad at heart which made the constant dragging and horrifically boring 'inner struggle' pointless. I simply don't understand people fascination with him. Bad things happen to people all the time and they don't go psycho and feel a need to 'regain their honor' they suck it up and get over it. Because their good at heart.


    If you are calling his honor boring, then you are calling the whole show boring that is what it was all about


    Really?? Cuz last time i checked the show was called Avatar: The Last Air Bender, not Avatar: Zuko the Fire Bender. :/


    the whole show is about honor

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  • Avatar of BrushiePenguins

    BrushiePenguins

    [9]Jul 15, 2010
    • member since: 02/05/08
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    I'm sorry, but I think you're taking an intensely shallow look at this show if you can't appreciate the amazing things they did with Zuko's character. It's a really impressive feat when a show can make the villain as sympathetic and well developed as the good guys. When the show begins you get a very clear picture of Zuko as a cookie cutter villain. He wants to capture the Avatar, but they don't give you his reasons or motives. As it goes on, they show his past and his search for acceptance and make him more human. Zuko was never really a bad guy, he was corrupted by the beliefs of his people and a search for his father's love. It's when Zuko finally gets what he thought he wanted that he realizes it's the wrong path, and he gives up everything he's worked to earn in favor of turning his life around. I think that makes him an extremely respectable character in his own right.


    You say you can't like Zuko because he's supposed to be the bad guy, but then you're ignoring one of Avatar's major themes. Redemption and forgiveness run very clearly through the entirety of the show. Iroh was once a war general, but he turned his life around as well and I'm sure you can't say that you still find him evil. No one is perfect, but Zuko's character arc and eventually redemption, in my opinion at least, played out perfectly and were one of the show's most impressive achievements.

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  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [10]Jul 15, 2010
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    I agree. The whole point of Zuko's character was to show that sometimes, people can change. Or maybe that those people weren't as bad as you thought they were.

    On slightly unrelated note, I think this thread is a bad idea. Nothing against the creator of this thread, but there was a similar "Anti-Megan" thread on the Drake and Josh forums. All it accomplished was making people angry with each other, and one of the "Anti-Megan" people got so belligerent that they were banned. Then the forum collapsed.

    Avatar fans need to stick together. Fighting over something relatively pointless (I mean, the show's over. They're not going to go back and write Zuko out.) is not going to help us reach our goal of getting a second Avatar series.
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  • Avatar of BrushiePenguins

    BrushiePenguins

    [11]Jul 15, 2010
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    I don't feel like this has to be a fight. It can be a civil discussion or debate. I'm sure everyone can be mature enough to realize it's all just opinion and that everyone is entitled to their own.
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  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [12]Jul 15, 2010
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    I guess "fighting" was a poor choice of words on my part. (I really meant something along the lines of arguing.)

    The reason I posted that was because I had such a bad experience with the Drake and Josh forum. It started out pretty innocently, like this one has been. But after a few pages, things got ugly. (Somebody actually suggested that I might as well worship Satan if I was going to hold on to my stated opinion.)

    Hence my opposition towards this sort of anti-character thread.
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  • Avatar of carcrashheart17

    carcrashheart17

    [13]Jul 15, 2010
    • member since: 07/13/10
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    I don't intend to fight. I just want others point of view. I like to look at all perspectives. I can't stand closed mindedness. I can understand why this seems like a bad idea, but I hope for no fights to break out. I've seen, read, and participated in heated arguments before but there is no reason for this to get ugly. Its all opinion. If you stay away from personal jabs, and keep it to the Show and comments only about the show it shouldn't get too bad. Back to Zuko.
    I can understand how a complex character is inserting. I've watched Smallville every season and saw how they made a good guy evil, and an evil guy good. Its not really that hard to accomplish and isn't that original. So Zukos nothing all that special cuz stories like his are everywhere. Personally I find Zuko's reason to be 'bad' weak. I once read about a character, Soren, who had a much more horrific past, when nobody loved him, and ever even bothered to teach him how to speak, he was abused and ignored for years. Even though he couldn't speak he could comprehend what others were saying too him and new that he didn't love him or want him. He knew that they thought that he was an abomination. One man happen to give him food and say kind ones, and Soren became loyal to that man for that day forth. He had pent up anger, and wasn't a huge fan of anyone else, but he didn't let his past cuz him to do evil. He was branded too. He had his own scar on his forehead. So there is a character who better then Zuko and had a worse past then him. There are other examples out there. That is just one. See, every point saying that Zuko is good points to his past, making that an excuse for his behavior. It doesn't. Evil is evil, good is good, everything is a choice. Zuko is weak and frail on the inside. Many people have excelled where he has failed. I'm sorry but I find him weak.
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  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [14]Jul 15, 2010
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    I guess I was confused because of this:

    carcrashheart17 wrote:
    Well, if you like him...why did you post here? This is for the Zuko haters. not lovers.


    I assumed that, based on this quote, you only wanted to talk to people with the same opinion as you. I apologize for not understanding you. I should have realized that in saying this you meant that you wanted to have an open discussion about the character.

    Anyway... I don't think your example is exactly applicable for Zuko, because Avatar has a Y-7 rating, and Bryke could not have made Zuko's past really any worse than it already was. (I can't imagine that this Soren character you mentioned could have been created for a audience of seven year-olds).

    Also, just because one character acted one way does not mean that a character from another series has to act in the same exact manner. There needs to be some diversity between characters and shows/books/plays/etc, otherwise, there is no point in watching or reading anything.

    Just because one song is written in the key of C doesn't mean every single other song HAS to be written in the key of C. And if they all were written in the key of C, they'd be boring and music wouldn't have a point.

    I find Zuko to be, contrary to your opinion, a pretty strong character. Broad examples aside, Zuko was NOT just raised in a harsh involvement, he was also heavily brain-washed with Fire Nation propaganda. Remember the episode The Deserter? Fire Nation children were taught from the start through puppet shows, (among other things), that they were the superior race and the other nations were evil. Their textbooks were written (as seen in The Headband episode), to glorify the Fire Nation. Zuko clearly shows in his behavior during the first season that he was also conditioned to beleive such things. Thus explaining his nasty attitude toward his uncle, who he was supposed to beleive was a wimp and a coward for abandoning the fight at Ba Sin Se, and towards those who he believes are of a lower social status than he. (Like how he refereed to Katara as the "Water tribe peasant".)

    Zuko would have had to over-come this extensive brainwashing (and basically the majority of his childhood upbringing) in order to become "good" as you put it. It's very hard to completely abandon one's entire upbringing and adopt a new set of beliefs, or even change one's opinion about one's self.

    I know that for a fact, because I spent most of my childhood being told by various teachers and family members that I was stupid because I'm dyslexic. I actually had a teacher come out and tell me that I wasn't going to be prepared for college because I can't take good hand-written notes, or use a scan-tron for tests. I had teachers tell me I was never going to get anywhere in life because I "wasn't smart". Up until recently, I pretty much believed them.

    I almost turned down my acceptance to the University of Chicago because I thought I wasn't going to be smart enough. It took YEARS for me to beleive that I actually was intelligent. The fact that Zuko managed to do a 180 in a matter of months (The events in Avatar take place in a little less than a year) is absolutely incredible, and firmly beleive that only a very strong person could have a change of heart so quickly.
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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [15]Jul 16, 2010
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    Carcrash, good for you for being possibly the first person in the history of character hating by backing up you opinion with something other than "I don't like him/her". Here's my (short b/c it's 1:30am my time) rebuttle. I read in your last post that you said you don't like Zuko because you feel that his story has been done. I agree with you that, if you look just at the bear bones, it has been done. It's a classic redemption story which has worn many hats throughout history. If you look at the bear bones of everything, it's all similar to something else. Even people. If you strip us to our skeletons we all look almost identical. It's our flesh, our faces, our minds, and our souls that makes us all unique and sets us apart for the rest. The same qualifies to Zuko. What I like about Zuko's story is that, because he is an emotionally driven person, you can practically watch as his psyche changes & grows. For years his mind is poisoned by thoughts of failure, and not being good enough. There he was being born into the royal family of what he was taught from an early age was the greatest nation on earth and his own family was basically telling him he didn't deserve to be there, and he believed it. (the am-ness is wearing on me so I'm gonna wrap this up) As Flutter says (PS Congrats on ancheiving your collge assparations) overcomes years of building insecurities and carved-in false beliefs in a matter of months is an astonishing task (in fact, I believe he went from post-ba sing se glorified prince and enemy of the avatar to treasonous rebel and friend and teacher of the avatar in alittle over a month). It takes a strong mind and strong person to take our inner moral compas and push it to the surface when it is burried beneath your pounded in false beliefs and your own poor self-image.
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  • Avatar of carcrashheart17

    carcrashheart17

    [16]Jul 18, 2010
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    1st off this "Soren Character" is not for an older audience then Avatar. His story has nothing in it that the same age group couldn't see. His life was simply worse. And I don't understand. All your points of view are the same as are your arguments. I think Zuko is weak and bad. I'm tired of writing paragraphs as to why just to get similar answers. Just saw the new movie and almost cried with how much he was in it. :/ I don't like Zuko. His character is a waste. Bottom line.
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  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [17]Jul 18, 2010
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    When you said Soren was ignored and abused worse than Zuko was, I assumed there was some physical or sexual abuse involved, which would not be appropriate for seven year olds. Apparently, I'm wrong. Could you tell me what series Soren is from so I can come to my own conclusion about whether or not his abuse was appropriate for a seven year old audience?

    One of the main reasons people argue is to express their point of view through their arguments. So it makes a lot of sense that my arguments and points of view are the same. I'm sorry if that annoys you. Most people prefer it when others post consistently.

    I am also sorry that the amount of Zuko in movie disappointed you. Although, honestly, Zuko is the main antagonist of Season 1, there wouldn't really be much of a plot if they cut him out.
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  • Avatar of carcrashheart17

    carcrashheart17

    [18]Jul 18, 2010
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    well in the movie they hardly made him the main antagonist. He was portrayed at more a pathetic mess more then anything else. And i like to hear others points of view and a good argument. You had one at first. Now its all repetitive. I guess original thought it out. :/ Sorry but I'm just hearing the same thing. Kinda boring. Just like Zukos Character.
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  • Avatar of T7F

    T7F

    [19]Jul 18, 2010
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    carcrashheart17 wrote:
    well in the movie they hardly made him the main antagonist. He was portrayed at more a pathetic mess more then anything else. And i like to hear others points of view and a good argument. You had one at first. Now its all repetitive. I guess original thought it out. :/ Sorry but I'm just hearing the same thing. Kinda boring. Just like Zukos Character.
    you didnt say where soren is from
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  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [20]Jul 18, 2010
    • member since: 08/29/08
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    carcrashheart17 wrote:
    well in the movie they hardly made him the main antagonist. He was portrayed at more a pathetic mess more then anything else. And i like to hear others points of view and a good argument. You had one at first. Now its all repetitive. I guess original thought it out. :/ Sorry but I'm just hearing the same thing. Kinda boring. Just like Zukos Character.


    Please tell me, why did you just tell me that I'm being repetitive?

    Is it because you're rude?

    Or maybe because you're mad I'm using actual verifiable evidence to back up my points, while you're seemingly incapable of doing so?

    Or is it because you want to draw attention away from THIS:

    carcrashheart17 wrote:
    Zuko is weak and frail on the inside. Many people have excelled where he has failed. I'm sorry but I find him weak.


    carcrashheart17 wrote:
    I think Zuko is weak and bad. I'm tired of writing paragraphs as to why just to get similar answers... I don't like Zuko. His character is a waste.


    carcrashheart17 wrote:
    I don't like him. I think he is weak and pointless.


    carcrashheart17 wrote:
    Zukos just as weak and pathetic as ever.


    carcrashheart17 wrote:
    He [zuko] is just a weak cry baby.


    carcrashheart17 wrote:
    So truth he is typically character with a weak persona and a pointless story arch.


    That's six different times you have said the same thing. And I didn't even quote you as many times as I could have. Believe me, I could have found at least three more if I wanted to.

    By the way, this is exactly why I suggested that this thread should be locked and removed. It's not exactly fostering healthy relationships between forum members.
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