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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [41]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
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    Axrendale wrote:

    Let's take a quick review of Azula's accomplishments/attributes:

    - Conquered Ba Sing Se singlehandedly, and in a very stylish manner.

    - (related to previous) impressed the Dai Lee so much that they decided to betray their nation, the man they were fanatically loyal to, etc and so forth, all to support one teenage girl who looked to have zero chance of succeeding, but who carried it off through sheer nerve.

    - (as further demonstration of her "people person" skills) somehow talked Zuko into siding with her in Ba Sing Se. Seriously. Talking the Dai Lee around was one thing, but convincing Zuko was just something else.

    - Uncovered information about the DOBS invasion, and was the mastermind behind the plan to squash it.

    - She lied to Toph, and got away with it.

    - Over the course of the series she came within a hairsbreadth of killing virtually every single major character.

    - She did manage to kill Aang (while he was in the Avatar State, too, no less), and came very close to finishing off Iroh (and it wasn't even really a foul blow - the guy was facing her, and looked ready to deal with her, but she still caught him out), both of whom were far more powerful than her.

    - During the finale underwent the biggest piece of character developement in the shortest time of any character in the show.

    - Did I mention she is hot to the 14,000th degree?

    - Note that she is the closest anyone in Avatar comes to being a Homo Universalis - the term applied to those whose skills come in a wide variety. As well as being a great bender, she is also great at hand-to-hand combat, general acrobatics and gymnastics, implied skill with small weapons, a gifted strategist and planner, a brilliant orator, master manipulator, brilliant analyist of her surroundings, a subtle politician, a brilliant liar, etc, etc - the list goes on.

    - As far as we know she is the only firebender ever to bend blue fire - as far as we know she invented the technique.

    - Generally insinuated to be among the ranks of the "mad geniuses" of Avatar.

    - Have I left anything out? Fellow Azula fans, feel free to add to my list.

    When Zuko, Katara, or whoever, can come up with a list of accomplishments and skills to rival this, then they (and their fans) can talk. As it is, pretty much the only person in the show who rivals/tops Azula's list of accomplishments is Aang (my second favorite character). He is more powerful than Azula (though she stilled managed to kill him), but his skills are not as diversified.

    Azula pwns all.

    Anti-Azula combat analyists - don't make me tell my Scipio Africanus/Hannibal Barca story. Because I will. And you will regret it.

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  • Avatar of microwave234

    microwave234

    [42]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 08/25/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 2,201
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    No, that's the truth. He lost because of that, so apparently it's a weakness because weakness's make you lose battles.
    She broke the rules thus she forfeited. She assaulted a bystander when Zuko clearly stated that the match was between them and no1 else should get involved.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [43]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640
    microwave234 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    Let's take a quick review of Azula's accomplishments/attributes:

    - Conquered Ba Sing Se singlehandedly, and in a very stylish manner.

    - (related to previous) impressed the Dai Lee so much that they decided to betray their nation, the man they were fanatically loyal to, etc and so forth, all to support one teenage girl who looked to have zero chance of succeeding, but who carried it off through sheer nerve.

    - (as further demonstration of her "people person" skills) somehow talked Zuko into siding with her in Ba Sing Se. Seriously. Talking the Dai Lee around was one thing, but convincing Zuko was just something else.

    - Uncovered information about the DOBS invasion, and was the mastermind behind the plan to squash it.

    - She lied to Toph, and got away with it.

    - Over the course of the series she came within a hairsbreadth of killing virtually every single major character.

    - She did manage to kill Aang (while he was in the Avatar State, too, no less), and came very close to finishing off Iroh (and it wasn't even really a foul blow - the guy was facing her, and looked ready to deal with her, but she still caught him out), both of whom were far more powerful than her.

    - During the finale underwent the biggest piece of character developement in the shortest time of any character in the show.

    - Did I mention she is hot to the 14,000th degree?

    - Note that she is the closest anyone in Avatar comes to being a Homo Universalis - the term applied to those whose skills come in a wide variety. As well as being a great bender, she is also great at hand-to-hand combat, general acrobatics and gymnastics, implied skill with small weapons, a gifted strategist and planner, a brilliant orator, master manipulator, brilliant analyist of her surroundings, a subtle politician, a brilliant liar, etc, etc - the list goes on.

    - As far as we know she is the only firebender ever to bend blue fire - as far as we know she invented the technique.

    - Generally insinuated to be among the ranks of the "mad geniuses" of Avatar.

    - Have I left anything out? Fellow Azula fans, feel free to add to my list.

    When Zuko, Katara, or whoever, can come up with a list of accomplishments and skills to rival this, then they (and their fans) can talk. As it is, pretty much the only person in the show who rivals/tops Azula's list of accomplishments is Aang (my second favorite character). He is more powerful than Azula (though she stilled managed to kill him), but his skills are not as diversified.

    Azula pwns all.

    And lost everything? Ya she is so awesome.

    isabelwhatx wrote:

    In Azula's case, absolutely. That's her fighting **** She has no sense of regret, and therefore something like that is perfect for her.
    Then why was she crying at the end?

    You have forced my hand. PREPARE YOURSELVES! PREPARE FOR HISTORICAL COMPARISONS!

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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [44]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    microwave234 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    No, that's the truth. He lost because of that, so apparently it's a weakness because weakness's make you lose battles.
    She broke the rules thus she forfeited. She assaulted a bystander when Zuko clearly stated that the match was between them and no1 else should get involved.

    We've gone over this. She didn't break the rules! Zuko stopped her attack before it could be considered against the rules.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [45]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    Axrendale wrote:
    You have forced my hand. PREPARE YOURSELVES! PREPARE FOR HISTORICAL COMPARISONS!
    ROLFMAO! I actually broke out into a full on laugh. My sister gave me a look
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  • Avatar of microwave234

    microwave234

    [46]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 08/25/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 2,201
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    microwave234 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    No, that's the truth. He lost because of that, so apparently it's a weakness because weakness's make you lose battles.
    She broke the rules thus she forfeited. She assaulted a bystander when Zuko clearly stated that the match was between them and no1 else should get involved.

    We've gone over this. She didn't break the rules! Zuko stopped her attack before it could be considered against the rules.
    Attempting to break the rules still counts. If you hold a gun against some1 but some1 manages to stop you can you argue "well I didn't kill him?"
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [47]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    microwave234 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    microwave234 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    No, that's the truth. He lost because of that, so apparently it's a weakness because weakness's make you lose battles.
    She broke the rules thus she forfeited. She assaulted a bystander when Zuko clearly stated that the match was between them and no1 else should get involved.

    We've gone over this. She didn't break the rules! Zuko stopped her attack before it could be considered against the rules.
    Attempting to break the rules still counts. If you hold a gun against some1 but some1 manages to stop you can you argue "well I didn't kill him?"

    In an Agni Kai, sure. As long as no one else is affected, all is right. The rules are very simple. Azula did not break the rules. She attempted to, but Zuko stopped her.
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  • Avatar of microwave234

    microwave234

    [48]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 08/25/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 2,201
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    microwave234 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    microwave234 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    No, that's the truth. He lost because of that, so apparently it's a weakness because weakness's make you lose battles.
    She broke the rules thus she forfeited. She assaulted a bystander when Zuko clearly stated that the match was between them and no1 else should get involved.

    We've gone over this. She didn't break the rules! Zuko stopped her attack before it could be considered against the rules.
    Attempting to break the rules still counts. If you hold a gun against some1 but some1 manages to stop you can you argue "well I didn't kill him?"

    In an Agni Kai, sure. As long as no one else is affected, all is right. The rules are very simple. Azula did not break the rules. She attempted to, but Zuko stopped her.
    No she broke the rules by attempting to hurt Katara. Your supposed to rely on your own skills and fight fairly. Not take cheap shots by threatening people that the other person cares about. Its supposed to be a match to prove who is strongest. You can't tell who is strongest if the other person just uses cheap shots. For example, if you get into a fight and you kick the other person in the balls does that make you stronger? Can you take any pride in that victory?
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [49]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
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    Azula used her surroundings to help her win the fight, it's as simple as that. That IS a skill. Using your surroundings is a skill. She's relying on her skills. That's what Azula specializes in: manipulation. And yes, you can take pride in that victory, because you found their weak spot.
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  • Avatar of microwave234

    microwave234

    [50]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 08/25/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Azula used her surroundings to help her win the fight, it's as simple as that. That IS a skill. Using your surroundings is a skill. She's relying on her skills. That's what Azula specializes in: manipulation. And yes, you can take pride in that victory, because you found their weak spot.
    That is not a skill. When Zuko said one on one it meant you couldn't take cheap shots at the other person like that. Obviously you have no pride.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [51]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    microwave234 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Azula used her surroundings to help her win the fight, it's as simple as that. That IS a skill. Using your surroundings is a skill. She's relying on her skills. That's what Azula specializes in: manipulation. And yes, you can take pride in that victory, because you found their weak spot.
    That is not a skill. When Zuko said one on one it meant you couldn't take cheap shots at the other person like that. Obviously you have no pride.

    Ha, taking personal jabs, are we? And it apparently IS a skill, because it won her the match. And not only that, using your surroundings was proclaimed a skill in Sokka's Master. Azula is just simply doing what she does best.
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  • Avatar of microwave234

    microwave234

    [52]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 08/25/08
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 2,201
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    microwave234 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Azula used her surroundings to help her win the fight, it's as simple as that. That IS a skill. Using your surroundings is a skill. She's relying on her skills. That's what Azula specializes in: manipulation. And yes, you can take pride in that victory, because you found their weak spot.
    That is not a skill. When Zuko said one on one it meant you couldn't take cheap shots at the other person like that. Obviously you have no pride.

    Ha, taking personal jabs, are we? And it apparently IS a skill, because it won her the match. And not only that, using your surroundings was proclaimed a skill in Sokka's Master. Azula is just simply doing what she does best.
    Failing at life is what she does best? I agree. And no she lost. Twice. First by Zuko then by Katara.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [53]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    microwave234 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    microwave234 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Azula used her surroundings to help her win the fight, it's as simple as that. That IS a skill. Using your surroundings is a skill. She's relying on her skills. That's what Azula specializes in: manipulation. And yes, you can take pride in that victory, because you found their weak spot.
    That is not a skill. When Zuko said one on one it meant you couldn't take cheap shots at the other person like that. Obviously you have no pride.

    Ha, taking personal jabs, are we? And it apparently IS a skill, because it won her the match. And not only that, using your surroundings was proclaimed a skill in Sokka's Master. Azula is just simply doing what she does best.
    Failing at life is what she does best? I agree. And no she lost. Twice. First by Zuko then by Katara.

    If she lost the first one with Zuko, she wouldn't be in any shape to fight Katara. And she may fail at life, but she has made some major accomplishments in her short life. You seem to think that just because she lost WHILE SHE WAS INSANE, she is worthless, along with her victories but apparently not her losses. You chose to only look upon her losses, but not her victories. Why? Because you don't have anything else to work on. All because you don't approve of Azula's tactics doesn't make them invalid.
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  • Avatar of microwave234

    microwave234

    [54]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 08/25/08
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    isabelwhatx wrote:

    If she lost the first one with Zuko, she wouldn't be in any shape to fight Katara. And she may fail at life, but she has made some major accomplishments in her short life. You seem to think that just because she lost WHILE SHE WAS INSANE, she is worthless, along with her victories but apparently not her losses. You chose to only look upon her losses, but not her victories. Why? Because you don't have anything else to work on. All because you don't approve of Azula's tactics doesn't make them invalid.
    Whats the point of all those victories if they are meaningless at the end? She didn't lose because Zuko kicked her ass. She lost because she broke the rules. She was in perfectly good shape to continue fighting. Well that is before Katara kicked her ass.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [55]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    microwave234 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    If she lost the first one with Zuko, she wouldn't be in any shape to fight Katara. And she may fail at life, but she has made some major accomplishments in her short life. You seem to think that just because she lost WHILE SHE WAS INSANE, she is worthless, along with her victories but apparently not her losses. You chose to only look upon her losses, but not her victories. Why? Because you don't have anything else to work on. All because you don't approve of Azula's tactics doesn't make them invalid.
    Whats the point of all those victories if they are meaningless at the end? She didn't lose because Zuko kicked her ass. She lost because she broke the rules. She was in perfectly good shape to continue fighting. Well that is before Katara kicked her ass.

    She didn't lose because she "broke the rules" because she never BROKE the rules. She lost because she went insane. Zuko in no way, shape, or form has ever kicked Azula's ass. In fact, it's the other way around. Even while Azula was mentally unstable she still managed to beat Zuko. She was not in perfectly good shape to keep fighting, mind you. Didn't you see her panting and sweating?
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  • Avatar of microwave234

    microwave234

    [56]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 08/25/08
    • level: 9
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    isabelwhatx wrote:

    She didn't lose because she "broke the rules" because she never BROKE the rules. She lost because she went insane. Zuko in no way, shape, or form has ever kicked Azula's ass. In fact, it's the other way around. Even while Azula was mentally unstable she still managed to beat Zuko. She was not in perfectly good shape to keep fighting, mind you. Didn't you see her panting and sweating? [/QUOTE]Because Zuko was pushing her to her limits. It was her fault for accepting a fight with Zuko when she was mentally unstable. She was too overconfident in her abilities. And yes Zuko was beating her. Why else do you think she had to resort to a cheap shot? Well whatever this whole discussion is pointless. Its pretty obvious that im not gonna convince you and your not gonna convince me so lets just drop it.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [57]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
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    Sounds good
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [58]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
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    *snaps history textbook shut*

    Sorry to obliterate your little truce, but I've just found exactly what I was looking for, and I have no intention of wasting the information. What issue would you like me to rail against first, Isabel?

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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [59]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    Axrendale wrote:

    *snaps history textbook shut*

    Sorry to obliterate your little truce, but I've just found exactly what I was looking for, and I have no intention of wasting the information. What issue would you like me to rail against first, Isabel?

    Hmm, I think the "cheap shot" Azula fired during the Agni Kai is the root of the problem. Fire away, Ax. Fire away
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [60]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640
    Okay, here we go (unsubtle ensurance that post is at top of page rather than at bottom).
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