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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Should Aang Have Killed Ozai?

Should Aang have killed Fire Lord Ozai?

  • Avatar of vampys_girl

    vampys_girl

    [41]Jul 22, 2008
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    qweasdzse wrote:

    While I don't think their was a need to kill the Fire Lord in that position, when he could spare him. It seems more of an act of Aang's selfishness of his way of life rather than mercy.

    Can an Avatar have his own beliefs at the cost of the world? An interesting quarry, ruined by a sort of copout.
    You are right, Aang spared Ozai's life in a selfish way. He wanted to follow what the monks teached him because he was concerned about his spirit. It would have been better if he would have taken Yangchen's advice and sacrificed his spiritual needs to save the world. He should have killed Ozai. I do not agree with what some people have been saying. What Aang did to Ozai was not worse than death. I believe it is unrealistic to think that Ozai is going to be weak just cause he doens't have his bending. Think of Zuko, he can fight with his swords without using firebending. And many non benders in the show are powerful like Piandao the sword master. Just like Iroh who is way older escaped prison without his bending (remember it was during the eclipse) Ozai could do the same thing... Aang should have killed him to make sure he wasn't a threat to the world anymore.
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  • Avatar of jonnywill36

    jonnywill36

    [43]Jul 22, 2008
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    vampys_girl wrote:
    qweasdzse wrote:

    While I don't think their was a need to kill the Fire Lord in that position, when he could spare him. It seems more of an act of Aang's selfishness of his way of life rather than mercy.

    Can an Avatar have his own beliefs at the cost of the world? An interesting quarry, ruined by a sort of copout.
    You are right, Aang spared Ozai's life in a selfish way. He wanted to follow what the monks teached him because he was concerned about his spirit. It would have been better if he would have taken Yangchen's advice and sacrificed his spiritual needs to save the world. He should have killed Ozai. I do not agree with what some people have been saying. What Aang did to Ozai was not worse than death. I believe it is unrealistic to think that Ozai is going to be weak just cause he doens't have his bending. Think of Zuko, he can fight with his swords without using firebending. And many non benders in the show are powerful like Piandao the sword master. Just like Iroh who is way older escaped prison without his bending (remember it was during the eclipse) Ozai could do the same thing... Aang should have killed him to make sure he wasn't a threat to the world anymore.


    You are right in a way, but I do think Aang made the right choice. aang kept what he was taught by the monks but he also fulfilled his destiny to bring peace to the world. plus the main threat isn't really just Ozai if he were to escape he could easily be stopped the reason it was hard before was that there was generations of Firbenders who believed in destroying and conquering the world; and he had a whole nation on his side. now that aang and zuko are rebuilding the world I think he wouldn't do much harm. I could be wrong. Plus I do believe Aang took away a lot of his strength, including his bending. I think that Aang stayed true to himself and to the world and he made a good decision.
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  • Avatar of 1337Bloodbender

    1337Bloodbender

    [44]Jul 22, 2008
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    PerfectAgent96 wrote:
    Aang gave him a fate worse then death.

    Indeed, if I was Ozai, I would rather die than live the rest of my life to rot in shame. At least with death, there is no suffering.

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  • Avatar of Pendragon_

    Pendragon_

    [45]Jul 22, 2008
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    This whole thread is a spoiler so I wont be using spoiler tags, read on at your own risk if you have not seen the final.

    I was more or less indifferent to fate of Ozai but I think the way they ended it was very clever and original. In the vast majority of children's programmes and even adult programmes the hero never 'lowers' himself to the level of the villain by actively seeking their death, you don't see spider man lining green goblin up with a sniper rifle and using his spider senses to blow him away from 200 yards.

    If Aang had killed Ozai at the end then that would have been an execution, even if deserved thats still very cold for someone like Aang (that would have made it very symbolic though).

    I'm so glad that the writers were able to avoid that horrendous cliche where the hero offers to let the villain live but they die anyway either by accident or because they won't surrender (that has been used far too many times now).

    I also really liked all the build up in the sense that every past avatar he asked including the air nomad one told him that killing Ozai whilst bad was necessary and justified. Even his own friends expected him to kill Ozai, everyone he knew and trusted told him to go through with it but he held strong to his beliefs and was rewarded with spirit bending, he was incorruptible. I think that was much more satisfying end than some cliche death or execution. So no, Aang should not have killed Ozai.

    Edited on 07/22/2008 3:54am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of linangel85

    linangel85

    [46]Jul 22, 2008
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    aMedusa wrote:
    they basically played the exact same card as Kataras to her mother killer though, have it drop right when its about to kill him, which i didn't like very much.


    because it's (at least partially) a theme of the show that the fire nation evildoers (ozai and the raiders and others) are ruthlessly evil, while the gAang (Aang and Katara at least) are truly good, decent people who would never truly WANT to hurt anyone, but are put into a horrible situation (devastating war.) in the war, they come to have to make decisions whether or not to kill, and their characters will inherently not want to commit murder.
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  • Avatar of music4life17

    music4life17

    [47]Jul 22, 2008
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    linangel85 wrote:
    aMedusa wrote:
    they basically played the exact same card as Kataras to her mother killer though, have it drop right when its about to kill him, which i didn't like very much.
    because it's (at least partially) a theme of the show that the fire nation evildoers (ozai and the raiders and others) are ruthlessly evil, while the gAang (Aang and Katara at least) are truly good, decent people who would never truly WANT to hurt anyone, but are put into a horrible situation (devastating war.) in the war, they come to have to make decisions whether or not to kill, and their characters will inherently not want to commit murder.

    Mmhmm. Tragically cliched.

    I wish he would have put an end to Ozai. It may have been out of retribution but I agree in that putting him in prison to rot and have the potential to come up with another scheme is harsher and more dangerous. Yet...there would go all possible information on the location of Zuko's mother. Hmm...

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  • Avatar of KingCAWisma

    KingCAWisma

    [48]Jul 24, 2008
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    Would you people quit saying that Ozai got a fate worse than death! Going to heck is a fate worse than death! Like a previous user said, Ozai could manipulate people to let him out. He could still hurt people. Did everyone forget about a little thing called punching and kicking? Ozai looks like he could do some real damage to anyone. If Aang really wanted to make sure that Ozai could "never hurt or threaten anyone again", then he should've killed him. And I didn't know everyone in the real world is suffering "a fate worse than death", because we aren't able to bend. I didn't realize that we were so miserable until you guys came along. Oh, and for the record, I would pick imprisonment over death any day. Ozai murdered many people. Mass murderers must die because if you imprison them then they could get out and kill alot more people. Oh and to the person who said that Hitler should've been alowed to live, are you serious? Do you even know what Hitler did???!!! He ordered the torturing and murder of millions of Jews. I bet that if you were Jewish (if you are Jewish then you're crazy; no offense) you wouldn't be saying that. You'd probably be saying "KILL HITLER KILL HITLER HE MUST PAYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". Sorry to start rambling like that. Sometimes I get carried away.
    Edited on 07/25/2008 6:48am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of skye3001

    skye3001

    [49]Jul 24, 2008
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    Well, I thought he stayed true to his values. And not just HIS values, but the values of his people. He is the LAST air nomad, the last of his people. HE, at least, has to stay true to their ways or else they'll be gone forever.
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  • Avatar of Undead_Prince

    Undead_Prince

    [50]Jul 24, 2008
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    Aang was right not to kill Ozai.

    1. It was the right thing to do according to Buddhism and general human kindness.

    2. At the end of the fight Ozai was basically a prisoner of war, captured by the Earthbending. And it is illegal to execute prisoners.

    3. Aang had a great instrument of making Ozai powerless - Spirit-bending.

    As for the possibility of Ozai escaping -

    1. Any criminal can potentially escape; should we be killing them all?

    2. In his state Ozai is no more dangerous than a common criminal. He has been defeated and publicly humiliated, his bending taken away, and his son has officially assumed the throne. Even if he could get out, there's not much he could do (and nothing the Avatar couldn't handle).

    Now, the more complex question is whether Aang was right not to kill Ozai with the redirected lightning, since at that moment he was obviously losing and couldn't yet enter Avatar State. It's a close call here: some would say Aang risked too much, and Ozai's death would've been a small price to pay for the averted disaster.

    I, for one, believe that the entire premise was wrong. Aang had 2 problems: he didn't want to kill the Fire lord, and he wasn't sure he could defeat Ozai without the Avatar State. The answer to both problems would have been to bring the entire gAang along with all the Old Masters to face Ozai's fleet. Seriously, Ba Sing Se and Azula could wait a couple of days. And so many powerful benders - including FOUR highly skilled firebenders (Iroh, the bearded master, Zuko, and Aang) - probably could have taken Ozai down without killing him. Especially if they could set up an ambush (and they could, since the Lion-turtle showed Aang precisely where the fleet will appear).
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  • Avatar of Eman5805

    Eman5805

    [51]Jul 24, 2008
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    I think what Ozai has been reduced too is a fate worse than death. He literally lost EVERYTHING he had. His figurative and literal power. His position. His people. All his meglomanical dreams. Now he's a pathetic prisoner mocked by pre-teens(badly mocked in one case ).
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  • Avatar of Murraymuzz

    Murraymuzz

    [52]Jul 24, 2008
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    I guess all thats left is for Ozai to learn to become a master swordsman and get himself a boomerang, seeing as not being able to bend is worse than death lol
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  • Avatar of ItachiHatakeZ

    ItachiHatakeZ

    [53]Jul 24, 2008
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    Aang shouldnt've killed Ozai, but somehow he should've died nevertheless

    How many times have Disney characters caused their own demise?

    I read an excellent post on a different Avatar forum, and it basically went along the lines of-After all the families torn apart, lives destroyed, people killed (this is the cliffnotes version, the actual post was a full page long), Ozai gets to live?

    Sometimes there are things worse than death, but at the same time, some people are just too dangerous.

    Murderers deserve to die, and Ozai is no exception.

    I still can't help but feel that the whole spiritbending thing was pulled out of the Bryke's butt...

    (and yes, I do realize that lion turtles were mentioned in the library, but it seems too convenient and unlikely for me to accept it.)

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  • Avatar of KingCAWisma

    KingCAWisma

    [54]Jul 25, 2008
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    Undead_Prince wrote:
    Any criminal can potentially escape; should we be killing them all?
    yes...
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  • Avatar of skye3001

    skye3001

    [55]Jul 25, 2008
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    Spirit Bending would've been more acceptable to me, IMO, if they gave some hints to it in previous episodes. Like when they found the scroll of the lion turtle in the description it said that it was some master of spirit bending or something like that.

    Seemed too random.
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  • Avatar of dratava

    dratava

    [56]Jul 25, 2008
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    I was perfectly satisfied with the way they concluded the fight. So no, he shouldn't have killed Ozai in my opinion.
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  • Avatar of ItachiHatakeZ

    ItachiHatakeZ

    [57]Jul 25, 2008
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    Yeah, I would've accepted it if some hints were dropped, however subtle they were. Putting a picture of the lion turtle doesn't cut it for me...

    Plus, think about the families that want closure.
    If YOU had your mother/grandmother/daughter/son killed, how would you feel? I think Ozai deserved more than just a war crimes charge. I'm curious about the Avatar world's criminal justice system, now...

    CSI:ATLA, anyone?
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  • Avatar of dratava

    dratava

    [58]Jul 25, 2008
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    ItachiHatakeZ wrote:
    CSI:ATLA, anyone?
    They already did that in epi 205, Avatar Day.
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  • Avatar of Undead_Prince

    Undead_Prince

    [59]Jul 25, 2008
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    ItachiHatakeZ wrote:

    Aang shouldnt've killed Ozai, but somehow he should've died nevertheless

    How many times have Disney characters caused their own demise?

    Karmic Death trope. Lame Beyond Belief. Praise God "Avatar" did not succumb to this Lameness.

    And don't you compare Ozai to pathetic Disney "villains".

    By the way, Disney villains that were actually any good (Scar, Maleficent) ACTUALLY DIED BY THE HERO'S HAND, and not by stupidly falling down the stairs.

    KingCAWisma wrote:
    Undead_Prince wrote:
    Any criminal can potentially escape; should we be killing them all?
    yes...

    You, sir, are not right in the head.

    Next time cop catches you speeding, I hope he shoots you on the spot. Seriously.

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  • Avatar of zakabbas

    zakabbas

    [60]Jul 25, 2008
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    i suppose not because that would just seem quite weird compared to the whole series....

    (deep down, i say he shoulda ripped his face off)

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