Since I don't feel like reading all of this right now, since I got work in 8 hours and I need to go to sleep I will but this in a easy to understand way.
There is always two sides to a story.
Nickelodeon (ended 2008)
| PrimoNation wrote: | ||||||
As for begging him to get up during the Agni Kai... it was more like a direct order.?? Yeah, he could have killed him - but how would that look to his subjects??? He basically banished him to a mission that was declared, as Zhao mentioned once, a wild goose chase.?? Everyone in the Fire Nation believed that the Avatar had been destroyed somehow and that Zuko's quest was all for naught.?? So he did not give his son a chance to earn respect and come back home; more like he killed 2 birds with 1 stone.?? Got Iroh out of any part he may have been able to play during war strategy and got Zuko out of dodge to open the door for his beloved prodigy Azula. If you love a child, you are not going to banish them to a life away from you... not to mention his reaction upon the defeat at the North Pole.????And I quote, "Iroh is a traitor and your brother Zuko is a failure.".... hmmm.... nothing in there about 'thank goodness, Zuko wasn't killed by those pirates as earlier reported'... or 'my brother, I'm sure he had good reason to do what he did, I must talk to him right away, afterall he is one of the fire nation's top ranking generals'..... Nope, those are definitely negative comments with no love included with them at all. But basically its just an opinion and yep, my personal opinion is he is power hungry... always has been, always will be.?? And like father, like daughter.?? But of course, nothing will be answered until the next season because I'm sure like they have always done, the writers/creators will tie up their loose ends. |
Now let's look at the Agni Kai if Ozai didn't care about Zuko than why would he order him to fight? Let's step back for a minute and recap what happened, after Zuko insulted both the general and his father by speaking out of tern he was told that he had to compete in an Agni Kai when Zuko thought he'd be fighting the old general he stated that he wasnt' affraid to fight him. But when it turns out the be Ozai what does Zuko do he falls on his knees beggs forgivness and crys like a baby. Now where is this all happening? It's happening in the middle of a huge stadium infront of a couple hundred of (we can assume from a few attendence: Iroh, Zhao, and Azula) the most important people in the FN. Now keep in mind that Zuko had said he wasnt' affraid to fight and now he's begging and crying infront of them without even a fight. What was Ozai supposed to do, his son was now guilty of having no respect, being a lier, and now being a coward. If Ozai didn't care about Zuko than he would have scared him the moment he fell on his knees but instead he gave Zuko about two or three chances for him to be a man and fight but Zuko won't. Now we know that the FN is full of bad people I don't think they'd care if Zuko was killed because odds are they know the story as to why this Agni Kai is going on in the first place but all Ozai did is burn him and banish him. Now if Zuko had done the right thing and fought his father the worst thing that would have happend is he would have been scared but he would still be home because standing up for himself wouldn't have shown 'shameful weakness' and thing would more or less be the same.
As far as the quest for the Avatar is concerned let's look at what we know we know that Sozin, Azulon, and Ozai all spent years trying to find the avatar so obviously they didn't think it was as hopeless as Zhao did.
Let's look at the season 1 finale comments by Ozai: "Iroh is a traitore and your bother Zuko is a failure."...Is he wrong? Iroh did betray the FN when he attacked Zhao, the fact that Zhao was wrong doesn't matter he attacked the leader of the North Pole invasion. And in the season 2 finale Iroh wanted Zuko to side with the avatar...That's betral right there in black and white! And are you going to say that Zuko isn't a failure? He's had multiple times to capture Aang and every time he's failed. So basically Ozai's only crime there is Speaking The Truth.
One more thing about the pirates trying to kill Zuko when Iroh was talking to Zhao about the event Zhao was calmly and happily drinking tea then when Iroh said that Ozai would be angry to hear of who really 'killed' Zuko Zhao stopped drinking and got very nervous. Now why would he get nervous if Ozai doesn't??care about Zuko? Remember that Iroh and Zhao are two people that know Ozai very well and they know who he does and doesnt' care for and by Zhao's reaction he knew that if it was revealed to Ozai that he killed Zuko that Zhao would be imprisioned or worse.
My take.
| ISpeakTheTruth wrote: | ||||||||
Now let's look at the Agni Kai if Ozai didn't care about Zuko than why would he order him to fight? Let's step back for a minute and recap what happened, after Zuko insulted both the general and his father by speaking out of tern he was told that he had to compete in an Agni Kai when Zuko thought he'd be fighting the old general he stated that he wasnt' affraid to fight him. But when it turns out the be Ozai what does Zuko do he falls on his knees beggs forgivness and crys like a baby. Now where is this all happening? It's happening in the middle of a huge stadium infront of a couple hundred of (we can assume from a few attendence: Iroh, Zhao, and Azula) the most important people in the FN. Now keep in mind that Zuko had said he wasnt' affraid to fight and now he's begging and crying infront of them without even a fight. What was Ozai supposed to do, his son was now guilty of having no respect, being a lier, and now being a coward. If Ozai didn't care about Zuko than he would have scared him the moment he fell on his knees but instead he gave Zuko about two or three chances for him to be a man and fight but Zuko won't. Now we know that the FN is full of bad people I don't think they'd care if Zuko was killed because odds are they know the story as to why this Agni Kai is going on in the first place but all Ozai did is burn him and banish him. Now if Zuko had done the right thing and fought his father the worst thing that would have happend is he would have been scared but he would still be home because standing up for himself wouldn't have shown 'shameful weakness' and thing would more or less be the same. As far as the quest for the Avatar is concerned let's look at what we know we know that Sozin, Azulon, and Ozai all spent years trying to find the avatar so obviously they didn't think it was as hopeless as Zhao did. Let's look at the season 1 finale comments by Ozai: "Iroh is a traitore and your bother Zuko is a failure."...Is he wrong? Iroh did betray the FN when he attacked Zhao, the fact that Zhao was wrong doesn't matter he attacked the leader of the North Pole invasion. And in the season 2 finale Iroh wanted Zuko to side with the avatar...That's betral right there in black and white! And are you going to say that Zuko isn't a failure? He's had multiple times to capture Aang and every time he's failed. So basically Ozai's only crime there is Speaking The Truth. One more thing about the pirates trying to kill Zuko when Iroh was talking to Zhao about the event Zhao was calmly and happily drinking tea then when Iroh said that Ozai would be angry to hear of who really 'killed' Zuko Zhao stopped drinking and got very nervous. Now why would he get nervous if Ozai doesn't care about Zuko? Remember that Iroh and Zhao are two people that know Ozai very well and they know who he does and doesnt' care for and by Zhao's reaction he knew that if it was revealed to Ozai that he killed Zuko that Zhao would be imprisioned or worse. My take. |
About your last paragraph:
I too think that Ursa is alive but I'm not so sure about her keeping in touch with Iroh or anyone else for that matter. Ever since Iroh lost his son he took Zuko under his wing as his own and I feel that when Zuko was banished that Iroh followed him without having to be told.
Also if Iroh knew Ursa was alive wouldn't he have told Zuko this?
Now let's look at the Agni Kai if Ozai didn't care about Zuko than why would he order him to fight? Let's step back for a minute and recap what happened, after Zuko insulted both the general and his father by speaking out of tern he was told that he had to compete in an Agni Kai when Zuko thought he'd be fighting the old general he stated that he wasnt' affraid to fight him. But when it turns out the be Ozai what does Zuko do he falls on his knees beggs forgivness and crys like a baby. Now where is this all happening? It's happening in the middle of a huge stadium infront of a couple hundred of (we can assume from a few attendence: Iroh, Zhao, and Azula) the most important people in the FN. Now keep in mind that Zuko had said he wasnt' afraid to fight and now he's begging and crying infront of them without even a fight. What was Ozai supposed to do, his son was now guilty of having no respect, being a lier, and now being a coward.
If Ozai didn't care about Zuko than he would have scared him the moment he fell on his knees but instead he gave Zuko about two or three chances for him to be a man and fight but Zuko won't.
Once again we have the complete disregard for Zuko's love. And how exactly does timing show caring??? He didn't scar Zuko at the beginning of the fight? So what? He still scarred him. Also, ordering someone to get up and fight is not giving them a chance to do anything. He was walking toward him and would've scarred him anyway. Zuko was no match for his father. Caring would've been to not scar him at all and if he simply felt that Zuko was being shameful in his "weakness" he could've banished him right at the beginning or restricted him to an area where no one could see him within the Fire Nation itself.
Now we know that the FN is full of bad people I don't think they'd care if Zuko was killed because odds are they know the story as to why this Agni Kai is going on in the first place but all Ozai did is burn him and banish him. Now if Zuko had done the right thing and fought his father the worst thing that would have happend is he would have been scared but he would still be home because standing up for himself wouldn't have shown 'shameful weakness' and thing would more or less be the same.
None of this is any reflection on Ozai or his "caring" for Zuko. Once again, scarring him, just like thinking he's a coward, shows a complete disregard for Zuko no matter when he did?? it or if Zuko had tried to fight him back.
As far as the quest for the Avatar is concerned let's look at what we know we know that Sozin, Azulon, and Ozai all spent years trying to find the avatar so obviously they didn't think it was as hopeless as Zhao did.
Actually that only supports the point that it was hopeless. They'd been trying for one hundred years to find this guy and they hadn't yet, why would anyone think that Zuko could do it now. Besides Zhao is not the only one who thought the search was pointless, Iroh stated as much with the exact same reason I just said and Katara's narration for the first ep said that most believed Aang had died with the rest of the airbenders.
Let's look at the season 1 finale comments by Ozai: "Iroh is a traitore and your bother Zuko is a failure."...Is he wrong? Iroh did betray the FN when he attacked Zhao, the fact that Zhao was wrong doesn't matter he attacked the leader of the North Pole invasion. And in the season 2 finale Iroh wanted Zuko to side with the avatar...That's betral right there in black and white! And are you going to say that Zuko isn't a failure? He's had multiple times to capture Aang and every time he's failed. So basically Ozai's only crime there is Speaking The Truth.
I agree here but that really shows nothing good (or bad technically) about Ozai.
One more thing about the pirates trying to kill Zuko when Iroh was talking to Zhao about the event Zhao was calmly and happily drinking tea then when Iroh said that Ozai would be angry to hear of who really 'killed' Zuko Zhao stopped drinking and got very nervous. Now why would he get nervous if Ozai doesn't care about Zuko? Remember that Iroh and Zhao are two people that know Ozai very well and they know who he does and doesnt' care for and by Zhao's reaction he knew that if it was revealed to Ozai that he killed Zuko that Zhao would be imprisioned or worse.
Well motivation has to be a factor here. Who said that Zhao would be imprisoned or worse because Ozai cared about Zuko rather then because he'd commited the very serious crime of killing the Prince of?? the Fire Nation? Zuko's power had been diminished in the first season but he hadn't lost the royal status of Prince itself. Everyone, including Iroh called him Prince Zuko. How would it reflect on Ozai and his absolute power to let his son be killed, by pirates no less?
| ISpeakTheTruth wrote: |
OK I???ve noticed that when it comes to Ozai everyone thinks he???s pure evil. I on the other hand don???t see him as an evil man???Not a saint by any means of the imagination but not evil. ??Now I???ve seen this episode many times and I see it this way. First of all Zuko wasn???t meant to be at that war meeting in the first place so he should have kept his mouth shut for the entire duration. But he not only spoke out of turn but he spoke out against one can assume a very important general and his plan. Now let???s stop and look at the situation. Ozai never said what his opinion was on the general???s plan. Now it is know what happens to people who are out of line in war discussion, an Agni Kai is instigated. We know that this is a normal occurrence because but Iroh and Lieutenant Lee know what the penalty would be. Now keep in mind that when Zuko thought he was going to face the general he said he wasn???t afraid to fight for his honor. Now we go to the Agni Kai???And when it is Ozai that Zuko must face he begins to beg for mercy???After just telling everyone in the war chamber he wasn???t afraid to fight. Now many would see Ozai???s temperament towards Zuko at this point as cold and evil. I don???t remember that Ozai gave Zuko Three chances to fight him and all Zuko did was beg for mercy and cry. What was Ozai supposed to do? Just say ???Oh it???s OK Zuko that you completely disrespected me and everyone that was in the War Room and that you have shown the worst act of cowardice I???ve ever seen.????? Ozai had to scar his son it was and Agni Kai for not only Zuko and Ozai???s honor but for the honor of the generals in the war room. He had no choice in that and Zuko forced his hand. Now let???s move right after the Agni Kai. Now if Zuko had fought his father the worst thing that would happen to him have been a scar, but he would have never been banished and if anything Ozai may have respected him more for fighting for what he believed in. But no Zuko was a coward in that fight and Ozai had to punish him for that. Now we all know that Ozai had Azula still and that she is a far better fighter and bender than Zuko is and as many people have stated Ozai???s ???Favorite??? since he had Azula he could have killed Zuko but he didn???t. He allowed him to live and not only that but gave him an opportunity to return home. Given catching the Avatar isn???t the simplest task but at least he gave him a chance. And even Iroh said in Avatar State that his Father cares for Zuko and I agree with that. Now to the season 1 finale when Ozai said ???Iroh is a traitor and your brother Zuko is a failure.??? ???Is he wrong? Iroh is a traitor because he attacked his superior officer (Zhao) and possibly cost the FN its victory at the North Pole. I???m not saying Zhao was right because he wasn???t but when you attack your superior that makes you a traitor. Now to Zuko, He has had three years to capture the Avatar and he has failed to do that even when given numerous chances in doing so, so Zuko is indeed a failure. Let???s take a look at Ozai sending Azula to capture Iroh and Zuko. The key word here is Capture since Iroh is a traitor and Zuko is an embarrassment to his nation if he d them and if he didn???t care for them he would have sent Azula to but he sent her to catch them and bring them back. That???s the core of my argument and I???d like to say one last thing. Ozai loves his family. From his wife, Azula, and yes even his brother and Son he???s just a hard man who is in the middle of a war. ??Any thoughts? |
I agree. You presented your opinion in a very logical and influencial way.
| ISpeakTheTruth wrote: |
About your last paragraph: I too think that Ursa is alive but I'm not so sure about her keeping in touch with Iroh or anyone else for that matter. Ever since Iroh lost his son he took Zuko under his wing as his own and I feel that when Zuko was banished that Iroh followed him without having to be told. Also if Iroh knew Ursa was alive wouldn't he have told Zuko this? |
