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Ozai Different Point of View.

  • Avatar of someone198

    someone198

    [21]May 21, 2006
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    windseeker15 wrote:
    I really cant see another alternative to what happened in the Agni Kai. From what I can tell the outcome and punishment could easily have been much worse. I think i should point out that Zuko's injury was not disabling. I mean, Ozai could have hurt an arm or a leg, but instead he chose to scar his face.
    With crippling emotional damage.??Like any abuse victim, the real damage was to Zuko's mind and spirit. Despite how he humiliated and tortured him, we saw in Southern Air Temple, Avatar Roku, and Avatar State how Zuko refuses to believe his father doesn't love him.??That "Azula always lies" scene in Zuko Alone troubles me, too; it just screams "Denial."

    windseeker15 wrote:
    By sending him away to catch the avatar, it seems that it might have been a way for Zuko to regain his honor rather than remain in the fire nation with the humiliation he just endured.
    Zhao seemed perfetcly confident in Southern Air Temple that the Avatar was never returning. Given the arrival??of the comet in less than a year which would seal their victory,??it seems the resurfacing??and interference of the Avatar would be the last thing anyone in the Fire Nation would hope for. Nobody believed there was a chance Zuko could succeed or wanted him to.

    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    someone198 wrote:

    I LUV this thread!!

    Let???s take a look at Ozai sending Azula to capture Iroh and Zuko. The key word here is Capture since Iroh is a traitor and Zuko is an embarrassment to his nation if he hated them and if he didn???t care for them he would have sent Azula to kill them but he sent her to catch them and bring them back.

    :
    ?? Azula ditched a royal retinue of soldiers for two sidkicks. Iroh defeated practically all of her crew singlehandedly. If her plan is for the three of them to take her brother and uncle back to the Fire Nation by force, it hardly seems feasible. Killing them seems a much more logical plan, especially given Mai's assassin-like skills and MO. As??I recall, the word "capture" never was used, just "I have a task for you."

    Like Azula told Zuko her father wants to lock them away not kill them...Azula could use Mo's pressure points to disable both Iroh and Zuko...Ever think of that?

    ?? No, Azula strikes me as the type of person you can better rely on to kill, not apprehend-unharmed.

    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    someone198 wrote:

    IMO, there was nothing political about the Agni Kai or the scarring- it was nothing more or less than abuse, retaliation for challenging his power, breaking his son's spirit, establishing his control, a branding as if to say, "Wherever you go, whatever happens, I own you and I always will." His son's life and honor belong to him now- like any tyrant/abuser, he enjoys that power. Why didn't he kill him, you ask? Where the fun be in that?

    I'm sorry when did it ever say Ozai liked buring Zuko? I don't realy remember that on the show. If he wanted to scare Zuko just for fun why would he give him two chances to stand and fight him?

    ?? To humiliate him and make the experience all the more painful and message all the more clear.

    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    He wanted Zuko to fight him so he wouldn't have to take the punishment any farther than??just the duel.
    ?? So what would that have proven, if your theory is he was only defending his own authority and reputation? Ozai would only have looked worse had Zuko stood up to him and fought;??that would not have been good for political or personal motives.

    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    And the Agni Kai is part of their political system.
    ?? But this was a confrontation between a father and son as well as a prince and king. Given Zhao's and Zuko's, a dispute between rivals trying to outdo each other with no legal matters in the picture,??with no spectators and apparently no publicity, I think Agni Kais can be personal as well as political.

    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    Iroh said that disrespect in the war room could only be punishable by one means the Agni kai. And what would you have Ozai do? Zuko has disrespect him and his generals and now he is crying infornt of the whole nation after just moments ago saying he wasn't affraid to fight?
    ?? So I guess you wouldn't be afraid to fight the Fire Lord hand-to-hand, right? How do you expect someone to??react??when their??father is promising he will suffer? You could have handled it better? I cried my eyes out every night my dad verbally tortured my mother. Back on topic, I think the general was more disrespectful to the soldiers of the 41st division than Zuko was to him. No technicality or guidelines of etiquette can change the fact that Zuko was right. I think speaking up for your people's welfare with no thought of your own is an admirable quality for a prince.

    Edited on 05/21/2006 4:08pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [22]May 23, 2006
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    You know the writers have never put in something memorable that wasn't??important to the story and I have to ask.

    Why? Why would the writers show Ozai obviously crushed at the duck pond? Why would they show a completely different side of him if they had no intention of having him be more human?

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    someone198

    [23]May 25, 2006
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    You know the writers have never put in something memorable that wasn't??important to the story and I have to ask.

    Why? Why would the writers show Ozai obviously crushed at the duck pond? Why would they show a completely different side of him if they had no intention of having him be more human?

    ?? Now that you mention it, he could have been silent because he was sad or crushed, but I assumed until now it was just a secretive silence, that??he was stunned,??brooding, remembering whatever events ocurred, and he didn't give Zuko an explanation not because he was crushed but because he had something to hide. Why would the writers try to evoke sympathy for a man they just had see his nephew's death as the perfect opportunity to seize the throne? Why would they correct previous assumptions that he loved his daughter more when he apparently just loves what she can do for him? Anyone he can use or will serve him well gets his blessing (Azula??and Admiral Zhao). Anyone who threatens his power dies (Azulon) or is otherwise disposed of (Iroh and Zuko). Since the evidence (the discrepancies in his father's and the priest's words) suggests it's power he unjustly usurped in the first place, he gets no sympathy from me.
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    karatewolfpunk

    [24]May 25, 2006
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    OK I???ve noticed that when it comes to Ozai everyone thinks he???s pure evil. I on the other hand don???t see him as an evil man???Not a saint by any means of the imagination but not evil.

    ??Now I???ve seen this episode many times and I see it this way. First of all Zuko wasn???t meant to be at that war meeting in the first place so he should have kept his mouth shut for the entire duration. But he not only spoke out of turn but he spoke out against one can assume a very important general and his plan. Now let???s stop and look at the situation. Ozai never said what his opinion was on the general???s plan. Now it is know what happens to people who are out of line in war discussion, an Agni Kai is instigated. We know that this is a normal occurrence because but Iroh and Lieutenant Lee know what the penalty would be. Now keep in mind that when Zuko thought he was going to face the general he said he wasn???t afraid to fight for his honor.

    Now we go to the Agni Kai???And when it is Ozai that Zuko must face he begins to beg for mercy???After just telling everyone in the war chamber he wasn???t afraid to fight. Now many would see Ozai???s temperament towards Zuko at this point as cold and evil. I don???t remember that Ozai gave Zuko Three chances to fight him and all Zuko did was beg for mercy and cry. What was Ozai supposed to do? Just say ???Oh it???s OK Zuko that you completely disrespected me and everyone that was in the War Room and that you have shown the worst act of cowardice I???ve ever seen.????? Ozai had to scar his son it was and Agni Kai for not only Zuko and Ozai???s honor but for the honor of the generals in the war room. He had no choice in that and Zuko forced his hand.

    Now let???s move right after the Agni Kai. Now if Zuko had fought his father the worst thing that would happen to him have been a scar, but he would have never been banished and if anything Ozai may have respected him more for fighting for what he believed in. But no Zuko was a coward in that fight and Ozai had to punish him for that. Now we all know that Ozai had Azula still and that she is a far better fighter and bender than Zuko is and as many people have stated Ozai???s ???Favorite??? since he had Azula he could have killed Zuko but he didn???t. He allowed him to live and not only that but gave him an opportunity to return home. Given catching the Avatar isn???t the simplest task but at least he gave him a chance. And even Iroh said in Avatar State that his Father cares for Zuko and I agree with that.

    Now to the season 1 finale when Ozai said ???Iroh is a traitor and your brother Zuko is a failure.??? ???Is he wrong? Iroh is a traitor because he attacked his superior officer (Zhao) and possibly cost the FN its victory at the North Pole. I???m not saying Zhao was right because he wasn???t but when you attack your superior that makes you a traitor. Now to Zuko, He has had three years to capture the Avatar and he has failed to do that even when given numerous chances in doing so, so Zuko is indeed a failure.

    Let???s take a look at Ozai sending Azula to capture Iroh and Zuko. The key word here is Capture since Iroh is a traitor and Zuko is an embarrassment to his nation if he hated them and if he didn???t care for them he would have sent Azula to kill them but he sent her to catch them and bring them back.

    That???s the core of my argument and I???d like to say one last thing.

    Ozai loves his family. From his wife, Azula, and yes even his brother and Son he???s just a hard man who is in the middle of a war.

    ??Any thoughts?



    I totally have to agree with you. I never thought Ozai was evil.
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    mellomuse

    [25]May 26, 2006
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    someone198 wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    You know the writers have never put in something memorable that wasn't??important to the story and I have to ask.

    Why? Why would the writers show Ozai obviously crushed at the duck pond? Why would they show a completely different side of him if they had no intention of having him be more human?

    ?? Now that you mention it, he could have been silent because he was sad or crushed, but I assumed until now it was just a secretive silence, that??he was stunned,??brooding, remembering whatever events ocurred, and he didn't give Zuko an explanation not because he was crushed but because he had something to hide. Why would the writers try to evoke sympathy for a man they just had see his nephew's death as the perfect opportunity to seize the throne? Why would they correct previous assumptions that he loved his daughter more when he apparently just loves what she can do for him? Anyone he can use or will serve him well gets his blessing (Azula??and Admiral Zhao). Anyone who threatens his power dies (Azulon) or is otherwise disposed of (Iroh and Zuko). Since the evidence (the discrepancies in his father's and the priest's words) suggests it's power he unjustly usurped in the first place, he gets no sympathy from me.

    Yeah.?? What you said.

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    mellomuse

    [26]May 26, 2006
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    You know the writers have never put in something memorable that wasn't??important to the story and I have to ask.

    Why? Why would the writers show Ozai obviously crushed at the duck pond? Why would they show a completely different side of him if they had no intention of having him be more human?

    Could be true that he was crushed-- but they never showed his face, and he didn't talk.?? Remember in "The Storm" when Zuko had those flashbacks and we saw the fatherly hand on his shoulder as a boy??? We all assumed it was Ozai.?? Then bam, in "The Avatar State"??we are suddenly left wondering if it was Iroh's hand on his shoulder instead of Ozai's.?? To quote Iroh, "In our family, things are not always what they seem."

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    ISpeakTheTruth

    [27]May 26, 2006
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    someone198 wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    You know the writers have never put in something memorable that wasn't??important to the story and I have to ask.

    Why? Why would the writers show Ozai obviously crushed at the duck pond? Why would they show a completely different side of him if they had no intention of having him be more human?

    ?? Now that you mention it, he could have been silent because he was sad or crushed, but I assumed until now it was just a secretive silence, that??he was stunned,??brooding, remembering whatever events ocurred, and he didn't give Zuko an explanation not because he was crushed but because he had something to hide. Why would the writers try to evoke sympathy for a man they just had see his nephew's death as the perfect opportunity to seize the throne? Why would they correct previous assumptions that he loved his daughter more when he apparently just loves what she can do for him? Anyone he can use or will serve him well gets his blessing (Azula??and Admiral Zhao). Anyone who threatens his power dies (Azulon) or is otherwise disposed of (Iroh and Zuko). Since the evidence (the discrepancies in his father's and the priest's words) suggests it's power he unjustly usurped in the first place, he gets no sympathy from me.

    Well if you remember the scene currectly then you can tells that even thought Ozai never told Zuko where his mother is he was able to see his face and know that something bad happened. Just remember that we are the only ones that can't see his face everyone else on the show can and obviously his face was sad and hurt. If he was just contemplating something than Zuko wouldn't have gotten sad.

    Now these pictures are hosted by Firebender.com and unfortunetly they didn't have the shoot of Zuko asking Ozai what happened to his mother but the picture shows Zuko in a serious face.

    Now after asking we see Ozai at the pool.

    Zuko is now sad and mildly shocked.

    And now he is completely sad. Now obviously Ozai had some emotion on his face or else Zuko wouldn't have gotten so sad so quickly. And the most logical emotion would be saddness.

    Now back to what someone198 said "Anyone who threatens his power dies (Azulon)" For one thing we don't know who killed Azulon but it is most likely Ursa who killed him and not Ozai.

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    someone198

    [28]May 26, 2006
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    Now back to what someone198 said "Anyone who threatens his power dies (Azulon)" For one thing we don't know who killed Azulon but it is most likely Ursa who killed him and not Ozai.
    ?? I don't think Ozai directly killed him either, but that whole mess is all his fault.
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    ISpeakTheTruth

    [29]May 26, 2006
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    someone198 wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    Now back to what someone198 said "Anyone who threatens his power dies (Azulon)" For one thing we don't know who killed Azulon but it is most likely Ursa who killed him and not Ozai.
    ?? I don't think Ozai directly killed him either, but that whole mess is all his fault.

    Now that's a bit unfair don't you think? Blaming an entire situation on a single person. Unless I'm mistaken Azulon was the one who ordered Ozai to kill Zuko.

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    fngrsfknfshrpnr

    [30]May 26, 2006
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    someone198 wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    Now back to what someone198 said "Anyone who threatens his power dies (Azulon)" For one thing we don't know who killed Azulon but it is most likely Ursa who killed him and not Ozai.
    I don't think Ozai directly killed him either, but that whole mess is all his fault.

    Now that's a bit unfair don't you think? Blaming an entire situation on a single person. Unless I'm mistaken Azulon was the one who ordered Ozai to kill Zuko.



    What evidence supports this?
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    someone198

    [31]May 26, 2006
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    someone198 wrote:
    I don't think Ozai directly killed him either, but that whole mess is all his fault.

    Now that's a bit unfair don't you think? Blaming an entire situation on a single person. Unless I'm mistaken Azulon was the one who ordered Ozai to kill Zuko.

    ?? According to Azula. IMO, pulling a Medea on your son and grandson doesn't track with someone who was appalled at one's audacity to use his brother's misfortune for his own gain. When you think about it, from a purely logical perspective without taking loyalty, storg??, and decency into account, Ozai's request makes a lot of sense; heirs can count for more than being the first born, so the fact that his father shot down his suggestion speaks volumes about his character. It doesn't add up for me.

    Even if Azulon did, in fact, plan to kill Ozai's son to punish him, Ozai started it when he made his move on his brother's throne. He knocked over the first proverbial domino.

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    U4ric

    [32]Dec 10, 2006
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    I had forgotten about this thread. Given what has been revealed to us since the last post (including the recent supposed dramatic shift in Zuko's alliance - which I do not fully buy into), I wonder if any minds have shifted on this subject.

    As has been proven through the series, the creators appear to be weaving more complex characters than the simple good/evil types. Throwing in the four nations one people slant in the season two finale also seems to point to a lack of clarity as to who is good/evil. Are these characteristics of people,??the actions they take or a combination?

    So back to Ozai??-??personally, right now there are still far too many unanswered questions for me to take a firm stance. But??this current lack of clarity on my part seems to make me believe that perhaps??Ozai is not evil/bad or good (yeah, be??careful not to??fall off the chair laughing at that ), but an ambitious??human (although I am also unclear as to whether these are his ambitions or ambitions passed down to him) who has made decisions, which in our world, would be seriously frowned upon??if not??illegal. Although it is natural to impose our own values on fictitious characters (I do it myself, especially when it relates to mother and child issues),??it doesn't make it "correct" as value systems differ from person to person, region to region. Yeah, burning your kid in front of a crowd won't win anyone a parent of the year award; however, customs of mutilation in some form have been practiced for centuries if not millennia. Piercing is a form of mutilation practiced on children (even babies) here in the USA. Does that mean it is bad, good or does it fall under a gray area?

    If this has been covered by a more recent thread I apologize as I went back to the earliest threads just to reminisce and this caught my attention.

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    ISpeakTheTruth

    [33]Dec 10, 2006
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    Nice statement

    But I'm waiting for season 3 because Azula made it pretty clear that Zuko and she were going to go back to the FN to see their father. It would be a nice piece to the puzzle of him being not evil if he accepted his son back into the family and Nation.

    And if the season 2 finale showed anything it showed that Azula may secretly jsut want to get her old family back. After all if she didnt' want Zuko back than she would have arrested him after they caught Iroh but she didn't but even more important is that she's willing to share this huge victory with Zuko instead of just saying it was all her that was a nice litte twist for her character development.

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    WiseIroh

    [34]Dec 10, 2006
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    just wait till season 3... you can clearly tell that azula just used zuko and then she's gonna turn on him.
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    PrimoNation

    [35]Dec 10, 2006
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    Ozai loves his family. From his wife, Azula, and yes even his brother and Son he???s just a hard man who is in the middle of a war.

    I??didn't have a??problem with everything that was written, until this statement.?? Ozai may be fond of his family, but love... I don't think so.?? Ozai's love is for power.?? This is displayed in him requesting a meeting with the Fire Lord for the sole purpose of superseceding his brother to the throne.?? And how about his timing??? Oh yeah,??immediately after his brother lost his son to the war.?? NOW - does that sound like somebody who loves his brother?

    2nd:?? that was??not a look of father's love when Zuko stepped forward to demonstrate to??for his grandfather. Looked more??like a look of disgust.?? Again,??Ozai loves power and apparently he??knew that Azula's firebending had matured faster and??was more powerful which is EXACTLY why he choose to have Azula demonstrate.

    3rd:?? I'm not??yet convinced that it wasn't him that had something??to to with why Ursa had to flee in the first place.?? Afterall, if as most have speculated, Ursa was somehow responsible for Azulon's death, why hasn't??he, as the Fire Lord, pardoned??her so she could return.?? Better yet, as Fire Lord, why didn't he just keep everything under wraps considering??I think we all agree that Azulon's death wasn't just a mere coincidence.??

    Finally, Ozai may have been living during the war, but he was far from the middle of it.?? His brother was commanding troops; he was living the royal life at home in the comforts of the Fire Nation.?? Doesn't sound like much of a hardship to me.?? And yes, Ozai loves Azula... why? - because she has power.

    Edited on 12/10/2006 7:34am
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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [36]Dec 10, 2006
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    PrimoNation wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    Ozai loves his family. From his wife, Azula, and yes even his brother and Son he???s just a hard man who is in the middle of a war.

    I??didn't have a??problem with everything that was written, until this statement.?? Ozai may be fond of his family, but love... I don't think so.?? Ozai's love is for power.?? This is displayed in him requesting a meeting with the Fire Lord for the sole purpose of superseceding his brother to the throne.?? And how about his timing??? Oh yeah,??immediately after his brother lost his son to the war.?? NOW - does that sound like somebody who loves his brother?

    2nd:?? that was??not a look of father's love when Zuko stepped forward to demonstrate to??for his grandfather. Looked more??like a look of disgust.?? Again,??Ozai loves power and apparently he??knew that Azula's firebending had matured faster and??was more powerful which is EXACTLY why he choose to have Azula demonstrate.

    3rd:?? I'm not??yet convinced that it wasn't him that had something??to to with why Ursa had to flee in the first place.?? Afterall, if as most have speculated, Ursa was somehow responsible for Azulon's death, why hasn't??he, as the Fire Lord, pardoned??her so she could return.?? Better yet, as Fire Lord, why didn't he just keep everything under wraps considering??I think we all agree that Azulon's death wasn't just a mere coincidence.??

    Finally, Ozai may have been living during the war, but he was far from the middle of it.?? His brother was commanding troops; he was living the royal life at home in the comforts of the Fire Nation.?? Doesn't sound like much of a hardship to me.?? And yes, Ozai loves Azula... why? - because she has power.

    Alright let's have at it.

    1) Yeah his timing trying to take Iroh's posistion was cruel but he did have to do it eventuallly since Iroh didn't have any line after him, Ozai was the only one that still had children to follow him.

    2) Ozai was trying to show Azulon that his children were worthy of taking his place after he died. So let's see if your goal is to show someone that your children are worthy of something wouldnt' you pick the kid that was actually good? No I have a better idea I'll have the one that's bad show off that'll do it. ????And disgust? all we saw was a frown.

    3) We have no information about anything about Azulon's death and Ursa so let's leave this alone until we actually know something.

    4) Ozai loves Zuko too, if he didnt' care about him he would have killed him in that Agni Kai. Heck let's go back to that match if he didn't care about Zuko than he wouldn't have basically begged him to stand up and fight him instead of cowering on his knees, if he didn't care he would have banished him without any way of coming home but he didn't he gave his son a chance to earn back respect and come home.

    Let's not forget that almost everything about Zuko being bannished was Zuko's fault.

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    ISpeakTheTruth

    [37]Dec 10, 2006
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    WiseIroh wrote:
    just wait till season 3... you can clearly tell that azula just used zuko and then she's gonna turn on him.

    What are you talking about? If Azula wanted to turn on Zuko she would have done it the moment Iroh was captured and the Gaang had left the city??she was surrounded by dozens of Dai Lee at the time and would have had not trouble doing it.

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    PrimoNation

    [38]Dec 12, 2006
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    PrimoNation wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    Ozai loves his family. From his wife, Azula, and yes even his brother and Son he???s just a hard man who is in the middle of a war.

    I??didn't have a??problem with everything that was written, until this statement.?? Ozai may be fond of his family, but love... I don't think so.?? Ozai's love is for power.?? This is displayed in him requesting a meeting with the Fire Lord for the sole purpose of superseceding his brother to the throne.?? And how about his timing??? Oh yeah,??immediately after his brother lost his son to the war.?? NOW - does that sound like somebody who loves his brother?

    2nd:?? that was??not a look of father's love when Zuko stepped forward to demonstrate to??for his grandfather. Looked more??like a look of disgust.?? Again,??Ozai loves power and apparently he??knew that Azula's firebending had matured faster and??was more powerful which is EXACTLY why he choose to have Azula demonstrate.

    3rd:?? I'm not??yet convinced that it wasn't him that had something??to to with why Ursa had to flee in the first place.?? Afterall, if as most have speculated, Ursa was somehow responsible for Azulon's death, why hasn't??he, as the Fire Lord, pardoned??her so she could return.?? Better yet, as Fire Lord, why didn't he just keep everything under wraps considering??I think we all agree that Azulon's death wasn't just a mere coincidence.??

    Finally, Ozai may have been living during the war, but he was far from the middle of it.?? His brother was commanding troops; he was living the royal life at home in the comforts of the Fire Nation.?? Doesn't sound like much of a hardship to me.?? And yes, Ozai loves Azula... why? - because she has power.

    Alright let's have at it.

    1) Yeah his timing trying to take Iroh's posistion was cruel but he did have to do it eventuallly since Iroh didn't have any line after him, Ozai was the only one that still had children to follow him.

    2) Ozai was trying to show Azulon that his children were worthy of taking his place after he died. So let's see if your goal is to show someone that your children are worthy of something wouldnt' you pick the kid that was actually good? No I have a better idea I'll have the one that's bad show off that'll do it. ????And disgust? all we saw was a frown.

    3) We have no information about anything about Azulon's death and Ursa so let's leave this alone until we actually know something.

    4) Ozai loves Zuko too, if he didnt' care about him he would have killed him in that Agni Kai. Heck let's go back to that match if he didn't care about Zuko than he wouldn't have basically begged him to stand up and fight him instead of cowering on his knees, if he didn't care he would have banished him without any way of coming home but he didn't he gave his son a chance to earn back respect and come home.

    Let's not forget that almost everything about Zuko being bannished was Zuko's fault.

    I've never thought it was anybody elses fault that Zuko got banished, but I believe it would have been just a matter of time before Ozai would find some other reason to bypass him in regards to the throne.?? Again, my arguement is, and always will be that Ozai LOVES power first.?? No he did not eventually have to address the heir to the throne.?? As any royal family works, Ozai was SECOND in line for that throne after Lu Ten died... he just didn't want to wait.?? He saw that it would be highly unlikely that in his lifetime he would ever sit on that throne and when Lu Ten died it gave him an opportunity to attempt to seize it from Iroh.??( i.e. The royal family of Great Britain, Prince Charles first, Prince William, Prince Harry, THEN Prince Andrew).?? So there is no reason why Lu Ten's death should have prompted any meeting between Ozai and his father.?? Succession would simply be Iroh then upon his death, it would be Ozai... or if Ozai was not considered fit for the throne, it would bypass him and go to Zuko.?? Kinda like what is being considered in England, possibly bypassing Charles for William depending on when Queen Elizabeth dies... so you see, it did not have to eventually be addressed - Ozai brought it for his own selfish reasons alone.

    And Ozai did not have to show his children were worthy to take the throne, their birthright ensures that.?? He wanted to show-off Azula's prodigy status as he put it.?? And his look on his face was anything BUT love when Zuko stood up.?? You might think it wasn't disgust, but it was hardly pride or love.... at best, irratation.?? And as a parent, I would not look upon my child like that at all.?? He was 'irratated' because Zuko spoke out of turn (yet again) which was interrupting his strategically laid plane to 'dress to impress' with his father to get him to bypass his first born.

    As for begging him to get up during the Agni Kai... it was more like a direct order.?? Yeah, he could have killed him - but how would that look to his subjects??? He basically banished him to a mission that was declared, as Zhao mentioned once, a wild goose chase.?? Everyone in the Fire Nation believed that the Avatar had been destroyed somehow and that Zuko's quest was all for naught.?? So he did not give his son a chance to earn respect and come back home; more like he killed 2 birds with 1 stone.?? Got Iroh out of any part he may have been able to play during war strategy and got Zuko out of dodge to open the door for his beloved prodigy Azula.

    If you love a child, you are not going to banish them to a life away from you... not to mention his reaction upon the defeat at the North Pole.????And I quote, "Iroh is a traitor and your brother Zuko is a failure.".... hmmm.... nothing in there about 'thank goodness, Zuko wasn't killed by those pirates as earlier reported'... or 'my brother, I'm sure he had good reason to do what he did, I must talk to him right away, afterall he is one of the fire nation's top ranking generals'..... Nope, those are definitely negative comments with no love included with them at all.

    But basically its just an opinion and yep, my personal opinion is he is power hungry... always has been, always will be.?? And like father, like daughter.?? But of course, nothing will be answered until the next season because I'm sure like they have always done, the writers/creators will tie up their loose ends.

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  • Avatar of Eman5805

    Eman5805

    [39]Dec 12, 2006
    • member since: 11/05/04
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 5,943
    Azula has manipulated everyone around her...maybe she's even manipulating Ozai somehow...didn't the creators come out and admit that Azula is the only person in the show truely "evil"?
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  • Avatar of andreitayehp

    andreitayehp

    [40]Dec 14, 2006
    • member since: 08/31/06
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 554

    Ok, I honestly think he is evil, i mean even if agni kai was political, he was the kimg, he could avoid it! I have a question:

    It's obvious he wanted Zuko away from him, he seems to hate him, Why? I mean, he alredy was FL, and remember in Azulon funeral , he said "it was my father's will that I'd take the trhone" (actually I dunno if it was him or a priest)??So if he believed Zuko's IQ wasn't enought to be FL, he can still that stipulate??his will is Azula becoming FLady, why did he humilliated his own son, then?

    I have 2 teories:

    1??- Zuko reminds him those days when he almost fail to get the trhone, he reminds him Ursa, which makes him unhappy, and, most of all, I think Ozai was the brother that had lucky to be borned, while Iroh borned lucky,(remember??he got really mad when Ozai tried to betray Iroh) ??so Zuko, as the eldest son, remins him all Azulon's hate for him.

    2??- (the most improblable, the one I like the most, tought) Ozai fears him for something like a profecy, or an Aunt Wu prediction, about: "Your son is going to be stronger than you, he'll stop this war, before FN Becomes an empire, and he will deathrone you" So he tought that if he let him go, Zuko wouldn't be a menace.

    I think that, because I have realised that in each story with a profecy, the actions that people make to avoid them is the reason of they becoming true. For example Macbet, or Harry Potter... And it would be a perfect twist, first we saw Zuko begging for forgivenness, and then Ozai fearing his son.

    Also, many people think that Zuko will end Aangs training, but that he'll have to open his owns chakras, as aang did, becoming the most powerful Fmaster/bender. One of Zuko'schakras could be stop fearing his father.??The last chakra, could be stop beliving his father loved him, or that everything can still be the way it was before the banishments, or realizing he is evil.

    Edited on 12/14/2006 9:34pm
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