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If you have issues with the casting

  • Avatar of Japanthewoman

    Japanthewoman

    [1]Mar 17, 2009
    • member since: 12/11/07
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    Hi there. I haven't been around for about a year now. I see there is a topic about the movie but I still feel this is different enough to post outside that topic. If I am worng and the mods feel this is out of place, I do apologize and will have no problem with you locking or deleting my topic and will continue my conversation in the proper thread. If I am totally out of place bringing this up here, then once again I apologize.

    This message is for the people who are against the casting for one reason or another and are planning on boycotting the movie. First I will say that I am not trying to alienate anyone with discenting opinions. You are still more than welcome to voice your protests here. What I am doing here is discussing an option to those who wish to take it. I'm sure there has been plenty of discussion around this board about the casting controvercy so I won't take a lot of time restating what has probably been said 10 or even 100 times over on these bards already.

    Avatar is undeniably influenced by Inuit, Tibetan, Chinese, Japanes, and Korean culture. In making this movie M. Night has taken what many fans have loved so much and twisted it into something almost unrecognizeable. Unless the water tribes are in fact white, this movie will also be another chapter in Hollywood's long embarrassing history of yellowfacing.

    So for those of you who are disappointed, saddened, angered, or upset about this movie and plan on boycotting it or at the very least want the cast to be reconsidered, please consider signing this petition here: http://www.petitiononline.com/racebend/petition.html

    Here is the full length petition letter: http://www.racebending.com/petition/letter.html

    If you want to do somthing about it, here is something you can do!

    Edited on 03/17/2009 9:13am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of MarryLarry

    MarryLarry

    [2]Mar 17, 2009
    • member since: 06/16/07
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    You shouldn't generalize Hollywood as a faceless, racist corporate evil. Because that's stereotyping.

    Instead of blaming 'Hollywood,' I'd start with the movie's casting directors for not realizing the implied 'yellowfacing.'

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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [3]Mar 17, 2009
    • member since: 08/05/06
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    MarryLarry wrote:

    You shouldn't generalize Hollywood as a faceless, racist corporate evil. Because that's stereotyping.

    Instead of blaming 'Hollywood,' I'd start with the movie's casting directors for not realizing the implied 'yellowfacing.'

    yeah, all generalzations are false...including this one. besides we had a topic liek this if u wanna dig it up. although it turned into a source of amusement for most.
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  • Avatar of Japanthewoman

    Japanthewoman

    [4]Mar 17, 2009
    • member since: 12/11/07
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    MarryLarry wrote:
    You shouldn't generalize Hollywood as a faceless, racist corporate evil. Because that's stereotyping.

    Instead of blaming 'Hollywood,' I'd start with the movie's casting directors for not realizing the implied 'yellowfacing.'

    I don't think that accusation is being made. I realize how I mighth ave implied it. I did say Hollywood has a history of yellowfacing meaning that many studios in Hollywood are guilty of doing it and having done it. Although they have done it and are doing it, it does not mean they are a "faceless, racist, corperate evil." Although, the Hollywood industry is a collection of movie studios so I understand how it can be implied as "faceless" because the term "Hollywood studio" is a generic term. So you are right. And I assure you this petition is not simply blaming "hollywood." It is aiming our protest towards a specific studio, that is Paramount, that has allowed for directors and casting directors that do not realize the implied yellofacing and other issues caused by the development of the film so far. Most of us are not being willy-nilly, I promise

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  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [5]Mar 17, 2009
    • member since: 08/29/08
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    Anybody notice that everybody stopped complaining once the white Zuko actor was replaced with a dark-skinned Indian one?

    I say we all like... um... boycott the movie, 'cuz this is like, so totally racist. And stuff... Yeah.
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  • Avatar of Japanthewoman

    Japanthewoman

    [6]Mar 17, 2009
    • member since: 12/11/07
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
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    _Flutterlight_ wrote:
    Anybody notice that everybody stopped complaining once the white Zuko actor was replaced with a dark-skinned Indian one? I say we all like... um... boycott the movie, 'cuz this is like, so totally racist. And stuff... Yeah.

    This is not the case as far as I have seen. The Casting of Dev Patel "reeks of tokenism," meaning he was put in there to make things look more multi-ethnic. There was a large outcry from the fans that this casting change caused just as many issues as it tried to solve.

    As it stands now, the cast is indeed quite multi-ethnic and hard to accuse anyone of racism beyond the original casting call for "Caucasian or any other ethnicity." However, there are many issues that still stand. The genocidal Fire Nation is now represented by "brown" people and when considering that in relation to the continuing conflict in the Middle East, intentionally or not it adds the subtext terrorism and terrorist being the "brown" enemy.

    In addition, the heroes are still white (though I have heard some rumors of Noah being half-Asian). Though in the movie, if they are to still be Inuit-influenced characters (which it appears they are) they will have to be yellowfaced, an embarrassing pactice still done in Hollywood long after blackface had been deemed a racist act. Unless it is the case that we are to believe white people are living as Inuits or the Water Tribe is now Scandinavian-influenced.

    The nation that is being subjugated and needs to be saved, the Earth Kingdom, is now represented by "Asian" people. This in part perpetuates the idea that East Asian people (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc) are docile, indecisive, meek, and submissive.

    People have not stopped complaining (I feel there are more of us that are debating than complaining.) There are issues brought to light from this movie that go beyond just a movie based on some childrens' TV show.

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  • Avatar of Falcondude123

    Falcondude123

    [7]Mar 17, 2009
    • member since: 09/24/06
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    I repsect your even tone and respectful manner of presenting all of this, but what you are basically saying is: "If you like the casting, do nothing, and be drowned out by those of us who don't and who are willing to go to great lengths to sign petitions and make blogs against Shyamalan and his hollywood consortium, etc. That way, those of us who don't like the casting will likely get our way, whether we are in the majority or not, and you can just watch it happen."

    Here's what they(shyamalan and this movies creators) should have done from the beginning: Keep all of the cast members anonymous. Because apparently, even tho the cast is multi-cultural, even tho Jesse got the boot, even tho the producers have paid far more attention to the will of the fans of this show than probably ANY movie producers have listened to ANY fans of ANY show that has ever been adapted into a movie, even to the point of firing cast members in exchange for actors whom they HOPED would make the fans happy, they(the fans) will NEVER EVER EVER be happy with the choices in casting made, but instead will continue to sign petitions, will continue to make hateful blog entries, and will probably continue to do it all even AFTER THE FILM IS RELEASED AND ANCIENT HISTORY. Why? Because the fans of this show who have the time to make these petitions, to post these negative youtube vids and anti-shyamalan blog entries, are part of the same vocal minority who have nothing better to do than to ignore real-life and real-life's problems, and instead try to turn a simple adaptation of a kids show into one of those real-life problems so that they don't feel bad about wasting time on trying to solve it. Those vocal few are the ones who have, in recent months, put an ugly face on the whole of Avatar Fandom.

    You wanna call that generalization? Go ahead- I totally agree with you. And what a shameful generalization for true fans to become a part of. It takes away from the whole spirit of Avatar and turns it into something nasty and insatiable.
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  • Avatar of ChopaYaNose

    ChopaYaNose

    [8]Mar 17, 2009
    • member since: 03/17/09
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    I think that it's just a movie and we'll rate it when it comes out. As long as the characters do their part, it doesn't matter if they're black or white.
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  • Avatar of Japanthewoman

    Japanthewoman

    [9]Mar 18, 2009
    • member since: 12/11/07
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    Falcondude123 wrote:
    I repsect your even tone and respectful manner of presenting all of this, but what you are basically saying is: "If you like the casting, do nothing, and be drowned out by those of us who don't and who are willing to go to great lengths to sign petitions and make blogs against Shyamalan and his hollywood consortium, etc. That way, those of us who don't like the casting will likely get our way, whether we are in the majority or not, and you can just watch it happen.

    What I said in my OP is if you do like the casting or have no objections to it then I have no objections with that and you are free to argue against me. I didn't say keep quiet if your opinion differs. Neither am I shoving this down anyone's throat. If you have no issues with this movie then see it. If we are just a noisy minority then a large Hollywood studio will have no problem ignoring us and will not feel the pain of much profit lost.

    Falcondude123 wrote:
    Here's what they(shyamalan and this movies creators) should have done from the beginning: Keep all of the cast members anonymous. Because apparently, even tho the cast is multi-cultural, even tho Jesse got the boot, even tho the producers have paid far more attention to the will of the fans of this show than probably ANY movie producers have listened to ANY fans of ANY show that has ever been adapted into a movie, even to the point of firing cast members in exchange for actors whom they HOPED would make the fans happy, they(the fans) will NEVER EVER EVER be happy with the choices in casting made, but instead will continue to sign petitions, will continue to make hateful blog entries, and will probably continue to do it all even AFTER THE FILM IS RELEASED AND ANCIENT HISTORY.

    I can't speak for all fans, only for myself. The dissatisfaction with the casting is not that it is not multi-cutural. I am glad to see the movie so multi-ethnic. I believe the same message of equality and unity betwen all the different people of the world will come through in this movie. What the issue is with the casting is that a large part of the appeal of Avatar are the Asian influences. If the fire nation is now Indian/Midde Easten, it does not make sense for someone to be called Iroh, Zuko, or Zhao. It does not make sense for an Indian to be eating with chopsticks or writing Chinese characters. Unless it is the case that the clothing, architecture, names, eating utensils, are going to be changed. Additionally, the message of equality and unity would seem to have more swaying power coming from a minority that the majority. The minority are the ones who cry equality and it is the majority content with the status quo. This, however, is purely my opinion though come to by reasoning from events such as the civil rights movement and the apartheid in South Africa.

    Falcondude123 wrote:
    Why? Because the fans of this show who have the time to make these petitions, to post these negative youtube vids and anti-shyamalan blog entries, are part of the same vocal minority who have nothing better to do than to ignore real-life and real-life's problems, and instead try to turn a simple adaptation of a kids show into one of those real-life problems so that they don't feel bad about wasting time on trying to solve it.

    It is a real life problem that minority actors, especially East Asian and Native American actors, are still not being given even the opportunity to star in movie and are still left in the background or as villans. It is a real life issue that the practice of blackface is looked down upon but it's no big deal when a white actor puts on yellowface. These are issues that go beyond just this movie. It is a problem with the status quo that still allows for a system to ignore and supress the minority.

    Falcondude123 wrote:
    Those vocal few are the ones who have, in recent months, put an ugly face on the whole of Avatar Fandom. You wanna call that generalization? Go ahead- I totally agree with you. And what a shameful generalization for true fans to become a part of. It takes away from the whole spirit of Avatar and turns it into something nasty and insatiable

    The true fan argument is an insulting one. I own all three season on DVD, I watched the show while it was on TV. There were times while I was in Japan I made sure to find and watch new episodes on the internet. You can see in my sig that I am the owner of the Toph fan club on Deviantart. You cannot tell me that I am not a fan of the show. No one can determine who is a fan an whi is not. Just because I am a fan of the show does not mean I have to be a fan of the movie. I can be be a fan of the show and not the movie and not be an embarrassment to the Avatar fandom because the movie is not Mike and Bryan's Avatar; it is M. Night's Avatar. While there are sure to be people who are fans of the show and the movie, it does not make anyone opposing the movie less of a fan simply for not following it from small to big screen.

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  • Avatar of MarryLarry

    MarryLarry

    [10]Mar 18, 2009
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    Japanthewoman wrote:

    As it stands now, the cast is indeed quite multi-ethnic and hard to accuse anyone of racism beyond the original casting call for "Caucasian or any other ethnicity." However, there are many issues that still stand. The genocidal Fire Nation is now represented by "brown" people and when considering that in relation to the continuing conflict in the Middle East, intentionally or not it adds the subtext terrorism and terrorist being the "brown" enemy.

    In addition, the heroes are still white (though I have heard some rumors of Noah being half-Asian). Though in the movie, if they are to still be Inuit-influenced characters (which it appears they are) they will have to be yellowfaced, an embarrassing pactice still done in Hollywood long after blackface had been deemed a racist act. Unless it is the case that we are to believe white people are living as Inuits or the Water Tribe is now Scandinavian-influenced.

    The nation that is being subjugated and needs to be saved, the Earth Kingdom, is now represented by "Asian" people. This in part perpetuates the idea that East Asian people (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc) are docile, indecisive, meek, and submissive.

    Trust me when I say that this train of thought will never enter the mind of the average viewer since they go to see movies for entertainment, not receive subliminal messages about the inferiorities of minorities.

    And I don't know about you, but I remember the Earth Kingdom from the show to be quite mighty and more powerful than the 'white water tribe' who are on the brink of extinction and are in need of more urgent assistance than their earth brethren.

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  • Avatar of imNOTcrazy

    imNOTcrazy

    [11]Mar 18, 2009
    • member since: 05/28/06
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    ChopaYaNose wrote:
    I think that it's just a movie and we'll rate it when it comes out. As long as the characters do their part, it doesn't matter if they're black or white.
    im with him. maybe you nay-sayers are so afraid of racism that it is you are becoming racist 0_o...

    okay, i didnt mean that, im just bustin' chops today.

    but seriously, its the actor's ability, not his color, that matters.

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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [12]Mar 18, 2009
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    imNOTcrazy wrote:

    ChopaYaNose wrote:
    I think that it's just a movie and we'll rate it when it comes out. As long as the characters do their part, it doesn't matter if they're black or white.
    im with him. maybe you nay-sayers are so afraid of racism that it is you are becoming racist 0_o...

    okay, i didnt mean that, im just bustin' chops today.

    but seriously, its the actor's ability, not his color, that matters.

    i've said that amillion times on the old thread like this. It won't matter to them. Just grab you're popcorn and enjoy the show.
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  • Avatar of ChopaYaNose

    ChopaYaNose

    [13]Mar 18, 2009
    • member since: 03/17/09
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    gilvatar wrote:
    imNOTcrazy wrote:

    ChopaYaNose wrote:
    I think that it's just a movie and we'll rate it when it comes out. As long as the characters do their part, it doesn't matter if they're black or white.
    im with him. maybe you nay-sayers are so afraid of racism that it is you are becoming racist 0_o...

    okay, i didnt mean that, im just bustin' chops today.

    but seriously, its the actor's ability, not his color, that matters.

    i've said that amillion times on the old thread like this. It won't matter to them. Just grab you're popcorn and enjoy the show.

    Let's all go to the lobby,
    Let's all go to the lobby,
    Let's all go to the lobby and grab ourselves some snacks.

    *wants to go to the movies*
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  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [14]Mar 18, 2009
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    Japanthewoman wrote:

    _Flutterlight_ wrote:
    Anybody notice that everybody stopped complaining once the white Zuko actor was replaced with a dark-skinned Indian one? I say we all like... um... boycott the movie, 'cuz this is like, so totally racist. And stuff... Yeah.

    This is not the case as far as I have seen. The Casting of Dev Patel "reeks of tokenism," meaning he was put in there to make things look more multi-ethnic. There was a large outcry from the fans that this casting change caused just as many issues as it tried to solve.

    As it stands now, the cast is indeed quite multi-ethnic and hard to accuse anyone of racism beyond the original casting call for "Caucasian or any other ethnicity." However, there are many issues that still stand. The genocidal Fire Nation is now represented by "brown" people and when considering that in relation to the continuing conflict in the Middle East, intentionally or not it adds the subtext terrorism and terrorist being the "brown" enemy.

    In addition, the heroes are still white (though I have heard some rumors of Noah being half-Asian). Though in the movie, if they are to still be Inuit-influenced characters (which it appears they are) they will have to be yellowfaced, an embarrassing pactice still done in Hollywood long after blackface had been deemed a racist act. Unless it is the case that we are to believe white people are living as Inuits or the Water Tribe is now Scandinavian-influenced.

    The nation that is being subjugated and needs to be saved, the Earth Kingdom, is now represented by "Asian" people. This in part perpetuates the idea that East Asian people (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc) are docile, indecisive, meek, and submissive.

    People have not stopped complaining (I feel there are more of us that are debating than complaining.) There are issues brought to light from this movie that go beyond just a movie based on some childrens' TV show.



    Geez, now MY sarcasm key is broken. I was KIDDING.

    Look, Avatar is a huge melting pot of ideas and cultures from tons of different races. It would be impossible to keep everything ethnically accurate and still have enough money left in the budget for special effects.

    As long as the actors act like their characters, and look somewhat like the people their playing, and the movie sticks to the story line like glue, I'll be fine.
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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [15]Mar 18, 2009
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    ChopaYaNose wrote:
    gilvatar wrote:
    imNOTcrazy wrote:

    ChopaYaNose wrote:
    I think that it's just a movie and we'll rate it when it comes out. As long as the characters do their part, it doesn't matter if they're black or white.
    im with him. maybe you nay-sayers are so afraid of racism that it is you are becoming racist 0_o...

    okay, i didnt mean that, im just bustin' chops today.

    but seriously, its the actor's ability, not his color, that matters.

    i've said that amillion times on the old thread like this. It won't matter to them. Just grab you're popcorn and enjoy the show.

    Let's all go to the lobby,
    Let's all go to the lobby,
    Let's all go to the lobby and grab ourselves some snacks.

    *wants to go to the movies*
    get me some fire gummies while you're up. (guess the refrence & I'll give u all the red ones)
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  • Avatar of Japanthewoman

    Japanthewoman

    [16]Mar 18, 2009
    • member since: 12/11/07
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    _Flutterlight wrote:
    As long as the actors act like their characters, and look somewhat like the people their playing, and the movie sticks to the story line like glue, I'll be fine.

    Well I don't know if that's part of your sarcasm button or not but I highly doubt you will get this. And that comment isn't me being whiny about the casting or anything, this is knowing how piss poor a writer M. Night is.

    Edited on 03/18/2009 6:14pm
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  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [17]Mar 18, 2009
    • member since: 08/29/08
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    Japanthewoman wrote:

    [QUOTE="_Flutterlight]As long as the actors act like their characters, and look somewhat like the people their playing, and the movie sticks to the story line like glue, I'll be fine.

    Well I don't know if that's part of your sarcasm button or not but I highly doubt you will get this. And that comment isn't me being whiny about the casting or anything, this is knowing how piss poor a writer M. Night is.

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't worry, I don't think you're being whiny at all. I know it's probally not going to happen.

    This is AVATAR, after all. If somebody other than Bryke started showing respect for the show's fans, we'd all die of shock.
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  • Avatar of Japanthewoman

    Japanthewoman

    [18]Mar 18, 2009
    • member since: 12/11/07
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    MarryLarry wrote:
    Trust me when I say that this train of thought will never enter the mind of the average viewer since they go to see movies for entertainment, not receive subliminal messages about the inferiorities of minorities.

    And I don't know about you, but I remember the Earth Kingdom from the show to be quite mighty and more powerful than the 'white water tribe' who are on the brink of extinction and are in need of more urgent assistance than their earth brethren.

    You are right that that train of thought will not enter the average and even the above average viewer's mind because they are going there for entertainment. No one is going to go to a movie thinking "I'll go to this movie and look into all the subtexts and absorb subliminal messages." The fact of the matter is that these messages will be converyed. It is not this movie alone that will drive people to think the lighter their skin is the better. That is a rediculous notion. It is, however, a part of all the media people, especially children, will absorb and get these notions and not know just how it is they came by them.

    Asians and Native Americans are still under-represented in the media and because Avatar was so laregely influenced by Asian cultures, this movie would have been a great opportunity to give Asians a little more "face time" rather than having them as just the one nation of the Earth Kingdom. Like casting director Deedee Ricketts said "our world is multi-ethnic and the 'Avatar' world will be multi-ethnic." I really do understand how our multi-cultural/ethnic world is being represented in the fantacy world of Avatar. The earth Kingdom is diverse and so are the East Asian countries that were represented in Avatar. It only saddneds me, and maybe this is just me speaking as "a fan that will never be satisfied," that as it stands now, all the East Asian influences that were represented throughout the entier world of Avatar are now compressed down to just one part of it so the story can be related to our real world. I honestly just feel the fantasy world of Avatar can stay the way it was and doesn't have to related to "our world" because it was that "East Asian" fantasy world that was so appealing.

    You have me there on your second point though. Kudos, really. That shut me up good.

    And just to make sure I address the other comments, I'm not here to tell people not to see the movie. It your perogative. It's not going to make me any less vocal.

    Edited on 03/18/2009 6:12pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of MarryLarry

    MarryLarry

    [19]Mar 18, 2009
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    I can see why you're concerned. And hopefully Asians will have better opportunities in the movie bizz in the near future.

    My advice is keep up the good fight and 'Hollywood' will eventually take notice...although it may be awhile since mainstream media seems to still be focusing on making amends with blacks. Guess it's one leg at a time, eh?

    And I gotta say you're the most rational and respectful person so far unlike other people who've voiced this issue. I take it you're above 12?

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  • Avatar of Japanthewoman

    Japanthewoman

    [20]Mar 19, 2009
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    Heh, thanks. Yes, I'm a decade ahead. So I'm still quite young and idealistic but, hey, that's what being young is about. Live and learn.

    Oh, man. Saying I'm/we're fighting "Hollywood" makes me sound like Don Quixote, haha. I guess we are in a way but I assure you the efforts are concentrated on just this one studio and just this one movie. I'm sure after we see what the result of all this will be many will move on while others may continue to fight for equality and what they beieve in. It brings me down a little to think about it. As always, only time will tell.

    I guess I should let this thread die since there doesn't seem to be much support here. I'm not calling anyone names, I'm just saying the general feeling I get from people here is apathy on this issue. I feel my passions would be wasted here. There is a probelm with the status quo so I am arguing points beyond "just a movie." I am glad, though, that I helped to prove there are rational people against this movie. But don't be surprised if I linger around here and find opportunities to bring it up anyway.

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