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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Disciples of the Dragon/OWLs - Read News Section

  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [1101]Aug 11, 2008
    • member since: 03/07/06
    • level: 41
    • rank: Sleestack
    • posts: 24,440
    TheGreatBishop wrote:
    DrAvatar wrote:
    TheGreatBishop wrote:
    edmasterchaos wrote:
    DrAvatar wrote:
    The Editors job is to accept submissions and I've never had a problem submitting things to the Avatar boards.
    The editor also has power over the boards, like pinning topics, locking/deleting threads, and altough he doesn't have the power to ban, i'm almost sure that if he mods a comment it will get read sooner. (not sure about the last one though)
    I'm pretty sure he has the power of deleting comments, and threads. In fact he has almost all the power a Mod would, but only for that particular forum.
    High00Lord can Lock threads and delete reported posts. He cannot delete threads, that power is reserved for the big guys like Danmod and the other staff members/moderators.
    Well locking threads is sufficient, I'm thinking if we had a more involved editor that this place wouldn't be so bad. I kinda did like a flashback to learn more about this place, and looked at a few threads on the waaay back pages. That Pooldude fellow seemed like a good editor, why and when did he retire?
    He was force to retire due to letting some submissions stay on "Pending" for more than 2 days, i think, and it was quite a while ago, not sure though, i'm about 60% sure it was in December 07 or January 08
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  • Avatar of DrAvatar

    DrAvatar

    [1102]Aug 11, 2008
    • member since: 12/02/06
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 4,663
    TheGreatBishop wrote:
    DrAvatar wrote:
    TheGreatBishop wrote:
    edmasterchaos wrote:
    DrAvatar wrote:
    The Editors job is to accept submissions and I've never had a problem submitting things to the Avatar boards.
    The editor also has power over the boards, like pinning topics, locking/deleting threads, and altough he doesn't have the power to ban, i'm almost sure that if he mods a comment it will get read sooner. (not sure about the last one though)
    I'm pretty sure he has the power of deleting comments, and threads. In fact he has almost all the power a Mod would, but only for that particular forum.
    High00Lord can Lock threads and delete reported posts. He cannot delete threads, that power is reserved for the big guys like Danmod and the other staff members/moderators.
    Well locking threads is sufficient, I'm thinking if we had a more involved editor that this place wouldn't be so bad. I kinda did like a flashback to learn more about this place, and looked at a few threads on the waaay back pages. That Pooldude fellow seemed like a good editor, why and when did he retire?
    Pooldude was forced to retire by the moderators for multiple reasons. It could be considered that this was one of the reasons that caused a lack of respect for the mods among some members here. If you need to report a post just use the dropdown menu below the post to report it and someone will take care of it. But it wont always be done in an instant.
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  • Avatar of TheGreatBishop

    TheGreatBishop

    [1103]Aug 11, 2008
    • member since: 08/12/08
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 274
    DrAvatar wrote:
    TheGreatBishop wrote:
    DrAvatar wrote:
    TheGreatBishop wrote:
    edmasterchaos wrote:
    DrAvatar wrote:
    The Editors job is to accept submissions and I've never had a problem submitting things to the Avatar boards.
    The editor also has power over the boards, like pinning topics, locking/deleting threads, and altough he doesn't have the power to ban, i'm almost sure that if he mods a comment it will get read sooner. (not sure about the last one though)
    I'm pretty sure he has the power of deleting comments, and threads. In fact he has almost all the power a Mod would, but only for that particular forum.
    High00Lord can Lock threads and delete reported posts. He cannot delete threads, that power is reserved for the big guys like Danmod and the other staff members/moderators.
    Well locking threads is sufficient, I'm thinking if we had a more involved editor that this place wouldn't be so bad. I kinda did like a flashback to learn more about this place, and looked at a few threads on the waaay back pages. That Pooldude fellow seemed like a good editor, why and when did he retire?
    Pooldude was forced to retire by the moderators for multiple reasons. It could be considered that this was one of the reasons that caused a lack of respect for the mods among some members here. If you need to report a post just use the dropdown menu below the post to report it and someone will take care of it. But it wont always be done in an instant.
    I'm aware on how to report and such, but I just think that an editor more involved with the community would be better. Like someone who actually discusses the show and doesn't only post to remind someone of the rules. I guess I just think that if the editor modded the forums more, or if we had 2 forum mods a forum things would run a lot smoother.
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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [1104]Aug 11, 2008
    • member since: 07/23/08
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 907
    Yeah, Jake was a good editor. He is an admin at DBF, and I go there often. He is the person who informed me of this website.
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  • Avatar of WiseLad

    WiseLad

    [1105]Aug 11, 2008
    • member since: 09/02/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 4,435

    I have to make a few statements

    1. some people have an "outside life", and we need to respect that

    2. High00lord is a good editor, so we should not be concerned about "contributions" outside of posting at the forum (sometimes I don't like fact that "one with more contribution points" is made editor, as sometimes "better knowledge of the series" is not the same as "I have time to look regurlaly at the forum, and make sure no disruptive posts are around" )

    3. that being said, he can't be here 24/7, and the TVcom mods should not be expected to be forced to go to just a few specific forums at the cost of not able to check up on all boards, that is why I feel it will be helpful to all mods, and to all members if each board can have the editor as a "forum mod" and that editor have at least 2 assistants who are not dependant on "points they have contribution wise" (Forum Assistant would be different that "trusted contributator" )

    4. this would not take away powers from mods, as mods would be ones who decide who is banned and suspended from the TVcom site, editors and assistants simply make things faster at each forum, and make sure there is less time of when "disruptive threads and posts" are at the forum

    5. that doesn't mean all actions toward a better forum has to be taken by staff and mods, also members

    6. we have to be understanding of newbies, and avoid confusing them with noobs and trolls

    7. and if possible, convert noobs into good members

    8. for very minor things, don't report, PM the member and give that member to correct themselves

    9. if there is no alternative, report, but don't answer back, specially if the disruptive post is made by a troll (if you answer back to the troll, you make things worse for the board, and you might end up risking your own status as a good standing member)

    10. both sides need to work together, remember, a vehicle does not work effectively if any of its wheels is in bad shape

    about DOD

    DOD is not a right, or means "more power"

    it is a vote of confidence from the forum members that the DOD is an example of what we want from our own members who show owlistic views

    DOD is avatar, but being an OWL is something that is for all the forums, not just Avatar. we would like to encourage all TVcom members to follow owlistic views and mannerisms, not just avatar members

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  • Avatar of latinblue

    latinblue

    [1106]Aug 12, 2008
    • member since: 07/15/06
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 2,838
    Well said Wiselad (as always )
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  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1107]Aug 12, 2008
    • member since: 04/22/05
    • level: 104
    • rank: Warrior Princess
    • posts: 23,887
    I poke in here occasionally. Don't know if I'll get back to respond, but... a few notes:

    1) Moderators had nothing to do with Pooldude being retired. That was an editor/MIA issue, which is handled by staff, not moderators.

    2) While appointing forum-specific moderators to certain key/problem forums might be a good idea, they would have to be people who don't frequent the forum. Otherwise there's a potential conflict of interest. You have to have folks moderating who aren't so close to the problem(s) and the people involved.

    3) When there were spoiler-trolls, we worked long and hard to get their posts removed, often within minutes of threads being created. It's our job: we don't consider it a problem to help you folks out with them. Nor do we regret the time spent. If you're concerned about us... it's appreciated, but don't worry about it.

    4) The existing system is the moderators sending a PM to users to correct themselves in the future. Some folks look on it as punishment and overreact, but you're not penalized for it, and normally it takes a number of warnings and someone ignoring them all to get suspended and banned. Nobody even knows about your "punishment" unless you tell someone about it.

    If you want to see what "punishment" is like, check out Gamespot where they make you lose points/levels if you ignore repeated warnings. Whatever works for them: they have problems that make TV.com pale in comparison. But I'm thankful we don't use that available option.

    We're trying to warn you, not "punish" you, by sending you a PM.

    5) Keep in mind that trolls want attention. If you pay attention to them, you're doing what they want. If you quote their posts, you're doing their job for them.

    Everything else Wiselad says in #1105, couldn't agree more.

    Hope that clarifies a few things.
    Edited on 08/12/2008 8:37pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1108]Aug 12, 2008
    • member since: 04/22/05
    • level: 104
    • rank: Warrior Princess
    • posts: 23,887
    Oh, regarding the Lisa situation: not much we could do there. I've explained to those who were interested enough to PM me and ask, so it's not some big secret.

    Unfortunately, she let someone use her ID. That person knew enough about her to fool a number of Lisa's friends into believing the impostor was her.

    That's a very... dangerous thing for someone to be able to do. TV.com took appropriate precautions so the impostor wouldn't take further advantage of the forum.

    I've been working with one or two of her friends to help her get unbanned (everyone can appreciate we have to be sure we're talking to the "real" Lisa), and I've passed on that she has to e-mail staff as the first step. I've been informed that so far she hasn't sent any e-mails to CNET, and she has real-life concerns that prevented her from doing so. Her contacting CNET is the first step to getting unbanned. Until then, there's not much anyone can do.

    Hope that clarifies things.
    Edited on 08/12/2008 8:29pm
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [1109]Aug 12, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640
    Thank you very much Gislef, you have indeed clarified a number of things.
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  • Avatar of TheGreatBishop

    TheGreatBishop

    [1110]Aug 12, 2008
    • member since: 08/12/08
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 274
    Yes, thank you Gislef, my respect for you and the Mods has greatly increased.

    Sadly I let the users influence me, and they gave me the impression that Mods were like Nazis, well clearly you have proven otherwise.
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  • Avatar of WiseLad

    WiseLad

    [1111]Aug 12, 2008
    • member since: 09/02/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 4,435
    TheGreatBishop wrote:
    Yes, thank you Gislef, my respect for you and the Mods has greatly increased.

    Sadly I let the users influence me, and they gave me the impression that Mods were like Nazis, well clearly you have proven otherwise.


    some misunderstanding from all sides, a little dose of impatience from members; and not remembering about "appearances" many times influencing more than actual facts many times the message coming across might come different than what was intended
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  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1112]Aug 13, 2008
    • member since: 04/22/05
    • level: 104
    • rank: Warrior Princess
    • posts: 23,887
    No problem. Not everyone takes advantage of it, but we do respond to PMs and we are here to help the folks that keep the rules in mind (believe it or not ).

    Also keep in mind, TV.com and CNET do have some standards that we have to apply to everyone and every forum. If we want to be fair to everyone on the site, there's some stuff we have to do and moderations we have to make.

    For instance, if someone quotes a troll or a racist, even if it's to fight them, we have to delete that post. There's just no choice there: we can't leave racist crud up. If we delete the troll''s post, but leave up the posts of the ten people who quoted him, what good does it do? The troll has won.

    That's why there's a rule to report and ignore trolls. Someone breaks that rule, they get a warning. (You don't want us deleting your post without giving you a warning, right?) Hopefully they stop. We sure want that person to stop. But if they ignore the warnings and keep doing the same thing... what else can we do?

    Really, it all sounds complicated but we've only got basic four rules:

    1) Let us handle moderating other users.

    2) Be nice to other users. Even the jerks. (overly large images mess up some browsers, so that's not "nice": another of those "we have to moderate" kind of things we have no choice in)

    3) Don't do anything illegal.

    4) Stay on-topic and contribute to discussions when you post.

    Don't worry about "flaming" and "trolling" and "offensive." If you keep those four things in mind, you shouldn't have a problem. And yes, we understand things like the Off-Topic Lounge are an exception that we're okay with.
    Edited on 08/13/2008 6:09am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of toosmooth

    toosmooth

    [1113]Aug 13, 2008
    • member since: 09/05/05
    • level: 15
    • rank: Ginsu Knife
    • posts: 2,776
    Wow. I just realized how much of a jerk I have been to the Mods. Well, I'd like to apologize for myself. The reason these forums are they way they are, are because of us, the users. Not the mods. I'm sorry.
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  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1114]Aug 13, 2008
    • member since: 04/22/05
    • level: 104
    • rank: Warrior Princess
    • posts: 23,887
    The reason the forum is the way it was, is because of a relatively few users. Some are gone because I think everyone here agrees they should be gone. A few, we got into this unpleasant situation that us mods have seen before. People get out of hand, some people get out of hand right back at them, everyone ignores our PMs or gets upset by them, some folks lash out, some folks leap in to defend their friends, and eventually we have to do something. That's why they call it a "flame war."

    It's happened before, it'll happen again. I think it's a combination of the show ending, and it being summer with folks having a lot of time on their hands.

    It really boils down to this: for the most part if someone says something nasty, we have to moderate it. There's no "good" reason or excuse to be nasty. (Unless we deliberately give folks a thread to vent on, but that's pretty rare.) We send you a PM suggesting you don't do it again. But if folks keep doing it... well, at some point moderators and staff have to do something.

    Again, if you get a PM, read it and relax. View it as advice, not a punishment. We've been using Other a bit more and give a bit more explanation so hopefully that will help.

    We've banned one or two unpleasant folk in the last day or so, but right now I think the forum here is in good hands.

    And I apologize if sometimes it seems like it takes us a while to get the bad apples out, but like I said, we have to treat everyone the same. If we give them 5 or 10 or 20 warnings or whatever... we give all of you guys the same. If we cut them off sooner... we'd have to cut everyone off sooner. All I can say is the more you report the lousy stuff their doing, the quicker we can do something about them.

    There's still a few things we have to do here. The 4-game limit is one of those things that again, is a general TV.com policy. I've talked to WiseLad about that. But other than that, we're not worried.
    Edited on 08/13/2008 9:03am
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1115]Aug 13, 2008
    • member since: 04/22/05
    • level: 104
    • rank: Warrior Princess
    • posts: 23,887
    WiseLad wrote:
    3. that being said, he can't be here 24/7, and the TVcom mods should not be expected to be forced to go to just a few specific forums at the cost of not able to check up on all boards, that is why I feel it will be helpful to all mods, and to all members if each board can have the editor as a "forum mod" and that editor have at least 2 assistants who are not dependant on "points they have contribution wise" (Forum Assistant would be different that "trusted contributator" )


    Just as a note, like I said this is an interesting idea. But who the heck would want to do it?

    If it's two people chosen from here in the forum, well.. here's what always happens.

    One of their "friends" eventually decides to go too far. Maybe they've got warnings and ignored them. Maybe they just figure "Hey, he's my friend, he wouldn't moderate me."

    They do something blatantly stupid. What's the Forum Assistant supposed to do?

    If they can't decide the situation in a fair and unbiased manner, they can't really do their job.

    If they do their job in a fair & unbiased manner... that "friend" will hate them. He'll call that Forum Assistant a Nazi, a snitch, a sellout, etc. They'll probably post in the forum about it, and that'll be... another moderation.

    The person will tell their friends, and either they'll believe him and get mad at the Forum Assistant too, and the whole thing gets worse, or it'll turn into a game of "He said she said."

    And meanwhile, the Forum Assistant would like to... well, actually participate in the forum. With people that now either don't trust him, or don't know who to trust.

    *shrug* That's why we have the system we do, with neutral third parties as moderators. And so we don't put users in that position. It's also why some editors just make reports and defer moderation entirely over to us: they don't want to lose their friends, they don't want to make enemies, and they want to participate in their forum.

    Best-case scenario, the Forum Assistants would be chosen from people outside of this forum. But really, if any forum needs that much attention, we'd probably rather warn/suspend/ban the troublemakers.

    Again, hope that clarifies why we do what we do. It always makes sense... eventually.
    Edited on 08/13/2008 10:50am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [1116]Aug 13, 2008
    • member since: 03/07/06
    • level: 41
    • rank: Sleestack
    • posts: 24,440
    Thanx for posting this
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  • Avatar of WiseLad

    WiseLad

    [1117]Aug 13, 2008
    • member since: 09/02/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 4,435

    Gislef wrote:
    WiseLad wrote:
    3. that being said, he can't be here 24/7, and the TVcom mods should not be expected to be forced to go to just a few specific forums at the cost of not able to check up on all boards, that is why I feel it will be helpful to all mods, and to all members if each board can have the editor as a "forum mod" and that editor have at least 2 assistants who are not dependant on "points they have contribution wise" (Forum Assistant would be different that "trusted contributator" )
    Just as a note, like I said this is an interesting idea. But who the heck would want to do it? If it's two people chosen from here in the forum, well.. here's what always happens. One of their "friends" eventually decides to go too far. Maybe they've got warnings and ignored them. Maybe they just figure "Hey, he's my friend, he wouldn't moderate me." They do something blatantly stupid. What's the Forum Assistant supposed to do? If they can't decide the situation in a fair and unbiased manner, they can't really do their job. If they do their job in a fair & unbiased manner... that "friend" will hate them. He'll call that Forum Assistant a Nazi, a snitch, a sellout, etc. They'll probably post in the forum about it, and that'll be... another moderation. The person will tell their friends, and either they'll believe him and get mad at the Forum Assistant too, and the whole thing gets worse, or it'll turn into a game of "He said she said." And meanwhile, the Forum Assistant would like to... well, actually participate in the forum. With people that now either don't trust him, or don't know who to trust. *shrug* That's why we have the system we do, with neutral third parties as moderators. And so we don't put users in that position. It's also why some editors just make reports and defer moderation entirely over to us: they don't want to lose their friends, they don't want to make enemies, and they want to participate in their forum. Best-case scenario, the Forum Assistants would be chosen from people outside of this forum. But really, if any forum needs that much attention, we'd probably rather warn/suspend/ban the troublemakers. Again, hope that clarifies why we do what we do. It always makes sense... eventually.

    a friend told me that when one is a mod or administrator, one has to state what it is expected, and never waive from that. One has to do what one has to do, if others do not respect that, than is too bad for them.Everyone has to understand that personal things and forum things have to be separate items

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  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1118]Aug 13, 2008
    • member since: 04/22/05
    • level: 104
    • rank: Warrior Princess
    • posts: 23,887
    WiseLad wrote:
    a friend told me that when one is a mod or administrator, one has to state what it is expected, and never waive from that. One has to do what one has to do, if others do not respect that, than is too bad for them.Everyone has to understand that personal things and forum things have to be separate items


    And that's unfortunately why a number of the recent bannings occurred: people confusing a forum moderation with a personal attack, and responding with a personal attack.

    Hey, one other thing. There seemed to be a lot of conspiracy theories about why we suddenly decided to "come down" on the forum. It's pretty simple, really. As the finale approached, the forums got more traffic and more new people. TV.com promoted the forum itself on their front page. That resulted in even more traffic and even more new people.

    As the forum became more... high-profile, we got more reports about TOS violations. We can't ignore violations once they're brought to our attention.

    Nothing mysterious about it.

    Another reason we got more involved. To put it bluntly, some folks got carried away. Take the Epic Fail thing. Nobody got a warning for just one Epic Fail. It was hostile/insulting, and didn't add anything to the discussion. But the problem was that one person did it, and a couple of either people decided to do it too. A few more people saw them, and a few more people saw them. It just snowballed until we did have to deal with it.

    Soon you had threads where someone would post a question or idea... and there's be 15 posts afterward with Epic Fail, and pictures of Epic Fail, and overly large/disruptive pictures of Epic Fail, and people quoting each other's Epic Fail (and quoting the distuptive images as well), and people doing commentary on each other's Epic Fails and saying how cool they were.

    All this did was discourage the original poster if they thought they had a valid question. And discourage any newcomers from posting questions and ideas in case they got the same treatment. And the people who actually wanted to disrupt the forum knew what to do to get a rise out of the users.

    Usually, if someone posts something that isn't worth a response... don't respond. Just let it slip quietly away. The weird thing was, even if it was a totally useless piece of junk post... you guys kept bumping it up and shoving good stuff down the page. Same with trolls.
    Edited on 08/13/2008 3:04pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of TheGreatBishop

    TheGreatBishop

    [1119]Aug 13, 2008
    • member since: 08/12/08
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 274
    Nope, just good folk doing their jobs, and members blowing that out of proportion.

    Gislef I'm really glad you decided to come here, and give a thorough explanation on all of this, I honestly don't see how people painted you guys as Nazi officers.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [1120]Aug 13, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640

    TheGreatBishop wrote:
    Nope, just good folk doing their jobs, and members blowing that out of proportion. Gislef I'm really glad you decided to come here, and give a thorough explanation on all of this, I honestly don't see how people painted you guys as Nazi officers.

    I'm not really sure myself, and I've been lurking here for years now. My personal theory is that it started several months ago, when an immensely popular user named Sgt Hydra was banned. Not everyone agreed with him, but everyone liked him. He was undeniably a major presence on this board. Sadly, he did have a tendency to go slightly over the top with what he perceived as noobs and trolls, and it ended in his getting banned. Hydra was, I believe, the first major presence on the board in some time to be banned, and naturally, there were a lot of strong feelings about it. The strong feelings soon lead to a couple of Hydra's close friends, also immensely popular, being banned. It should have just been a terrible incident that should have been forgotten about, but it wasn't. That was when the opinion that the mods were "Nazi officers" first began - nobody actually meant it, it amounted to little more than sarcasm, irony, etc, basically people expressing their sad feelings. Things didn't start to get majorly out of hand until shortly before the finale, when the Sozins Comet book came out, and the spoilerific troll attacks began, the most infamous of which was made by a guy named "gelem". These attacks deeply hurt a lot of the more dedicated avatards, who lashed out, looking for someone to blame for their problems. The sad fact was that the mods were simply convenient scapegoats, who it was quite easy to blame. Around this time, the Refuge was created, and many veterans left for it. Come the finale, when the Forum was beginning to show some major signs of life and rejuvenation, a lot of people had built up a slightly less than favorable opinion of the mods, and as a result when Lisa was banned, everyone directed all of their ill-feeling at them. That's basically what this whole mess amounts to; people channeling all of their strong emotions at the people that it is easiest to blame, which isn't right or fair at all. The mods didn't deserve to be blamed, but it was very easy to do so.

    That's my theory about how it all started anyway, and of course this is where it has all taken us.

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