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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Azula: what I think goes on inside her head

Is Azula capable of healing?

  • Avatar of LordMordor

    LordMordor

    [41]Jul 28, 2008
    • member since: 11/04/05
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    bump because there are some excellent posts here that derserve more attention
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  • Avatar of IrohtheTea

    IrohtheTea

    [42]Jul 28, 2008
    • member since: 07/28/08
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    excellent work.

    azula may be able to heal but i dont think she will be good ever again.

    her mother might help but where is she?

    once a evil-crazy always evil-crazy

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  • Avatar of slumshoes

    slumshoes

    [43]Jul 28, 2008
    • member since: 10/07/07
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    Axrendale wrote:
    Jackson5050 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    Jackson5050 wrote:
    Well, we know what happened to Azula. According to Nick.com, she is in a mental health facility with around the clock supervision.

    Link please.

    As close to a link of it as I can get. Just click on an episode for Book 3 and underneath the video is a list of episodes. Click on 3-20 and the info should be in the characters section. http://www.nick.com/shows/avatar/index.jhtml

    Quite frankly, I trust information from Nickelodeon about as far as I could throw Appa (not at all).

    On the other hand, a story about how Azula busts her way out of the mental facility to escape would certainly be an interesting one.



    I agree. And on her self imposed exile she travels the Earth Kingdom and became the leader of a Gang of powerful benders that terrorizes everything. She then recruits Fire Benders loyal to Fire Lord Ozai, the Rough Rhinos, the Pirates, remnants of the Dai Li, Fire Nation Man, and Juun the Bounty Hunter. And it is up to Aang to stop them without killing anyone. Man, I love to see that.
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  • Avatar of Jackpot16

    Jackpot16

    [44]Jul 28, 2008
    • member since: 07/21/08
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    Well... My friend thinks if she gets a boyfriend that really loves her... she'll change.
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  • Avatar of misterham

    misterham

    [45]Jul 28, 2008
    • member since: 10/02/06
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    azula's just crazy cause she's the most powerful lightning bender in the world! too much power azaaakkazkakzkakkk!!!
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  • Avatar of Lady_elest

    Lady_elest

    [46]Jul 28, 2008
    • member since: 11/11/06
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    that was a nice psychological analysis, doll. Provides some very good points. She will get worse before better... but can get better I think.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [47]Jul 28, 2008
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    Jackpot16 wrote:
    Well... My friend thinks if she gets a boyfriend that really loves her... she'll change.

    If what Azula really needs is a boyfriend, may I be the first to volunteer

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  • Avatar of Jackpot16

    Jackpot16

    [48]Jul 29, 2008
    • member since: 07/21/08
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    Axrendale wrote:

    Jackpot16 wrote:
    Well... My friend thinks if she gets a boyfriend that really loves her... she'll change.

    If what Azula really needs is a boyfriend, may I be the first to volunteer

    Can't... because my friend is going out with her... but they are constantly arguing... so it should end.
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  • Avatar of SpreadPeace

    SpreadPeace

    [49]Jul 29, 2008
    • member since: 09/16/06
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    finally, a smart thread!
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  • Avatar of suss2it

    suss2it

    [50]Jul 29, 2008
    • member since: 02/02/08
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    slumshoes wrote:
    and Juun
    There is no "Juun" in Avatar. But I do remember a bounty hunter by the name of June.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [51]Jul 29, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
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    suss2it wrote:
    slumshoes wrote:
    and Juun
    There is no "Juun" in Avatar. But I do remember a bounty hunter by the name of June.

    Forget about her name; we're never going to agree on that! Let's just call her "That lady with the giant mole". Or, if that doesn't work for you, "The fourth hottest girl in Avatar" - after Azula, Katara and Ty Lee

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  • Avatar of PsychoPass

    PsychoPass

    [54]Jul 29, 2008
    • member since: 11/05/07
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    OK, this isn't the real version of an essay I'm writing but this can be looked at as a summarized rant/rambling. Rather than a theory about why Azula is the way she, it's about what her character development in the finale meant. What the purpose of showing us all these things was.

    There will be ranting and rambling. You have been warned. ;o

    Something that has turned me off of these Azula discussion is the inclusion of psychology and personality disorders when trying to describe Azula's character. For example, the high school psychologists, and apparently, the "PHD-s" who come up with such elaborate ways to describe her by using Psychopathy, sociopathy, etc. personality disorder checklists. Technically, if you did that for every real villain in history, they'd all be some sort of psychopath. Why? Because in order to have a good villain, they need to be cold, they need to be manipulative, and they need-to-be-cruel. I mean, there's all the 'evidence' in Zuko Alone that "confirms" that she is suffering from a mental disorder because we weren't supposed to see any "good" in her. Only evil. Zuko Alone was supposed to establish the rotten family Zuko lived in and how his mother and uncle were candles in the dark. How Azula, while his sister, was torturous and tormenting and how his father favored Azula (call back to 120). To magnify our pity of Zuko after he lost his mother (I certainly felt bad) and to increase our hatred of Azula (we certainly weren't supposed like her). Zuko Alone is also a perfect episode for Azula's villian character development. It was to establish our beliefs and notions that this 7 year old girl is the exception to the rule. The born evil, psychopath. Why should we have been shown any real friendly interactions between Azula and her brother and especially her mother? We shouldn't have. It would've given us some sympathy or at least understanding of her character beyond pure evil which is exactly what we were supposed to believe in season 2. Her motives have an always will be driven by the desire for power and for evil (How COULD you have denied that in season 2?).

    To make a long story short, prior to the finale, the general (and most likely intended notion) of Azula's character that it is only driven by power, control, and evil. That she's a pscyhopath incapable of anything beyond that. But there's a reason why we saw so much character development from her during the finale. It showed us that we were wrong about her only being that. Her motives for undermining Zuko during the war meeting to burn everything down (while very evil) was driven by the desire to impress her father and make him proud/happy of her.* Azula cared more about being with her father and NOT being treated like Zuko more than burning down the world (well, she wasn't saying "I deserve to burn down the world!")

    Mai and Ty Lee's betrayal has shaken her on more than one level. Azula still controled people through fear in Into the Inferno but their betrayal shook her ability to trust people. Showing that she actually thought of them as close friends or even simply as people she could have faith in to follow her. I'm going to skip the scene with Ursa in the mirror since I believe you have all analyzed that sucker to death. ;p

    Conclusion

    After Sozin's Comet, I was eager to read discussions of Azula's character since she no doubt became very interesting and complex (anyone who denies that doesn't deserve to be taken seriously). But I constantly came across post after post that elaborately described Azula's past or reason's for going crazy based on insufficient information or subjective opinions. I got sick of reading the discussions because just about every person ignored the big picture; what her character development in the finale was really telling us.

    We were wrong. Wrong about what though? Our previous conceptions and beliefs about Azula. The idea that she is an emotionless psychopath. She only desires power and control and could care less about love and friendship. Don't get me wrong. Azula is not a good person. She is sadistic and malevolent but certainly not suffering from an emotional deficiency disorder. I strongly believe that the purpose of Sozin's Comet wasn't to give us insight on why Azula is such an evil person or why exactly she behaved the way she did in the finale (So attached to her father, why exactly she thinks Ursa thought she was a monster, etc.). Rather, the view that this is a perfectly crafted, unfeeling, psycho really does want and desire things beyond power and control.

    *If you watch that scene again, you will notice that we are actually shown via close up of the change in Azula's expression. It goes from a devious smirk after countering Zuko to an actual smile of happiness as her father gets up and acts thrilled over her plan.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [55]Jul 29, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640

    PsychoPass wrote:
    OK, this isn't the real version of an essay I'm writing but this can be looked at as a summarized rant/rambling. Rather than a theory about why Azula is the way she, it's about what her character development in the finale meant. What the purpose of showing us all these things was. There will be ranting and rambling. You have been warned. ;o Something that has turned me off of these Azula discussion is the inclusion of psychology and personality disorders when trying to describe Azula's character. For example, the high school psychologists, and apparently, the "PHD-s" who come up with such elaborate ways to describe her by using Psychopathy, sociopathy, etc. personality disorder checklists. Technically, if you did that for every real villain in history, they'd all be some sort of psychopath. Why? Because in order to have a good villain, they need to be cold, they need to be manipulative, and they need-to-be-cruel. I mean, there's all the 'evidence' in Zuko Alone that "confirms" that she is suffering from a mental disorder because we weren't supposed to see any "good" in her. Only evil. Zuko Alone was supposed to establish the rotten family Zuko lived in and how his mother and uncle were candles in the dark. How Azula, while his sister, was torturous and tormenting and how his father favored Azula (call back to 120). To magnify our pity of Zuko after he lost his mother (I certainly felt bad) and to increase our hatred of Azula (we certainly weren't supposed like her). Zuko Alone is also a perfect episode for Azula's villian character development. It was to establish our beliefs and notions that this 7 year old girl is the exception to the rule. The born evil, psychopath. Why should we have been shown any real friendly interactions between Azula and her brother and especially her mother? We shouldn't have. It would've given us some sympathy or at least understanding of her character beyond pure evil which is exactly what we were supposed to believe in season 2. Her motives have an always will be driven by the desire for power and for evil (How COULD you have denied that in season 2?). To make a long story short, prior to the finale, the general (and most likely intended notion) of Azula's character that it is only driven by power, control, and evil. That she's a pscyhopath incapable of anything beyond that. But there's a reason why we saw so much character development from her during the finale. It showed us that we were wrong about her only being that. Her motives for undermining Zuko during the war meeting to burn everything down (while very evil) was driven by the desire to impress her father and make him proud/happy of her.* Azula cared more about being with her father and NOT being treated like Zuko more than burning down the world (well, she wasn't saying "I deserve to burn down the world!") Mai and Ty Lee's betrayal has shaken her on more than one level. Azula still controled people through fear in Into the Inferno but their betrayal shook her ability to trust people. Showing that she actually thought of them as close friends or even simply as people she could have faith in to follow her. I'm going to skip the scene with Ursa in the mirror since I believe you have all analyzed that sucker to death. ;p Conclusion After Sozin's Comet, I was eager to read discussions of Azula's character since she no doubt became very interesting and complex (anyone who denies that doesn't deserve to be taken seriously). But I constantly came across post after post that elaborately described Azula's past or reason's for going crazy based on insufficient information or subjective opinions. I got sick of reading the discussions because just about every person ignored the big picture; what her character development in the finale was really telling us. We were wrong. Wrong about what though? Our previous conceptions and beliefs about Azula. The idea that she is an emotionless psychopath. She only desires power and control and could care less about love and friendship. Don't get me wrong. Azula is not a good person. She is sadistic and malevolent but certainly not suffering from an emotional deficiency disorder. I strongly believe that the purpose of Sozin's Comet wasn't to give us insight on why Azula is such an evil person or why exactly she behaved the way she did in the finale (So attached to her father, why exactly she thinks Ursa thought she was a monster, etc.). Rather, the view that this is a perfectly crafted, unfeeling, psycho really does want and desire things beyond power and control. *If you watch that scene again, you will notice that we are actually shown via close up of the change in Azula's expression. It goes from a devious smirk after countering Zuko to an actual smile of happiness as her father gets up and acts thrilled over her plan.

    I agree with you 100%. There can be no doubt that prior to the finale we were never supposed to see Azula in anything but the most evil of evil lights. There is one exception though. Although the vast majority of her charcter developement did occur in the finale, we definitely got hints of it in The Beach.

    The thing about all these speculations about what went wrong with her in the past is that they are made in hindsight after watching the finale. Having seen what happned to Azula, and knowing more or less why it happened, speculations about her past basically go back, examine what we saw of her previously, and attempt to match it to what happened later. We know what is ultimately going to happen to her, and thus the meaning of things that before were somewhat ambiguous bcomes somewhat clearer.

    Personally I have never held much stock in the "personality disorder checklists" that you claim turned you off similar discussions to this one. I think that people are a lot more complicated than that, and in my own essay, I simply attempted to reason out why Azula may have done what she did.

    Personally, I am greatly looking forward to reading your essay, which sounds like it's going to be very interesting indeed.

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  • Avatar of gangstazuko7

    gangstazuko7

    [56]Aug 1, 2008
    • member since: 08/01/07
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    Wellas far as her fate by the finale goes, nick.com says she was shipped off to a Fire Nation Mental Facility where she is supervised around the clock, so maybe she can heal
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  • Avatar of PsychoPass

    PsychoPass

    [57]Aug 3, 2008
    • member since: 11/05/07
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    Bump. Good topic that can generate some more substantial discussion (which there isn't enough of on this forum these days :[ ).


    *Working on some stuff to post*
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  • Avatar of PrinceAtticus

    PrinceAtticus

    [58]Aug 3, 2008
    • member since: 07/29/08
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    Hey look. A wall of text.
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  • Avatar of Jackpot16

    Jackpot16

    [59]Aug 3, 2008
    • member since: 07/21/08
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    gangstazuko7 wrote:
    Wellas far as her fate by the finale goes, nick.com says she was shipped off to a Fire Nation Mental Facility where she is supervised around the clock, so maybe she can heal
    She will, but it will take some time.
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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [60]Aug 3, 2008
    • member since: 07/23/08
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    If Ursa returns and Zuko forgives her, she may heal. I suppose Mai could also help in her rehabilitation. I always felt that Azula liked Mai more than Ty Lee. I would keep Ozai away from Azula...at least until she heals.
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