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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Azula: what I think goes on inside her head

Is Azula capable of healing?

  • Avatar of hkulka2974

    hkulka2974

    [21]Jul 24, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    Here's a question that I was not quite able to answer - What do you think Azula's relationship with Ozai was? We know that he favored her over Zuko, and she seemed to enjoy his praise, and was flattered that he decided to make her firelord, but other than that we have had very little indication. Does Azula genuinelycare about her father? Does he care about her? Or do they regard eachother as mutually useful, and have a purely political relationship?

    probably mutually useful. although azula seemed to become quite angered when her father decided that she would not be there to carry out her plan wiht him. although she was flattered by ozai giving her the postion of firelord she wasnt as flattered when ozai decided to establish himself in a position higher than her. It was really no suprise to me to see azula go crazy, and i personally think after her father trying to carry out her plan without her was the final straw.

    Azula seemed to be fine in TBR after mai and ty lee betrayed her but i guess she wasnt. it clearly shows that she needed someone to be a role model for her, to care for her, she needed her mother.

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  • Avatar of djdfire

    djdfire

    [22]Jul 24, 2008
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    Maylene wrote:
    slumshoes wrote:
    I can't believe I read all that. I don't usually read very long posts (this is probably the longest). But thank God that I did. Who ever wrote this in depth analysis on Azula (who is my favorite character by the way) knows his or her stuff. And yes, I agree to everything. I usually take the scenes for granted where Azula is with her family. Now I know why she broke down after Katara healed Zuko. It was of jealousy once again of her brother. Seeing Zuko with someone who cares for him made her realize how alone she is in the world. I feel sorry for her. I really hope Zuko would just banish or something besides prison (or rehab).
    Thank this man here: [url]fanfiction.net/~selfpossessed[/url]. He PMed me of the link. And like you I was blown away and agreed almost with all of it.

    Axrendale wrote:
    That is definitely a great theory, not to mention very interesting to read. I agree with whoever wrote this that Azula's jealousy of her brother mostlikely played a huge role in her downfall, as exhibited by the sheer hatred of him she displayed in the final episodes. But I still believe that Ursa, not Zuko, was the main catalyst. But definitely great points. I think that Azula focussed a lot of her hatred on the people that shw saw as standing in her way. She percieved Zuko and Iroh as being the greatest obstacles to the two thngs that she wanted most in the world: Ursa's love and the throne (in that order). Eventually, Iroh ceased to be threat regarding either, but I think that whoever wrote the theory above was right abought Azula feeling great resentment towards him for being closer to Zuko (anyone who gave Azula a doll obviously didn't know her at all). Azula came to convince herself that trust and love were for fools because she wanted them to be for fools, so she wouldn't feel like she had lost something important (which she had). I think that regarding the Agni Kai, Azula's chief motive for shooting at Katara was to take Zuko down. Having seen her only a couple of times it's quite possible that Azula didn't even recognze Katara, her main irk with her being that she was going to try and help Zuko.

    So very true about the doll. But you know, I don't think Azula's reason (at least main one) for going after Katara was to take Zuko down--she could have done that in a flash with another lightning move and Zuko being unable to move. I think she did that, to keep him down but not totally kill him. If that makes sense...But I don't know.

    I actually remember reading Self-Possessed's post a little while before this thread and I was floored by how well his analysis of Azula was. I was actually clapping after I read (my mother was wondering why I was clapping until I let her read it. Since she has a degree in psychology she understood the post and was suprised that a cartoon had such deep characters).

    And I also agree with the doll statement. I also wonder what her relationship with Lu Ten was as well. Maybe he showed Zuko more attention, seeing him as not only a little brother but as someone he could train in his own footsteps. I could be wrong though because we never learned how close either of the siblings were to their older cousin.

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  • Avatar of sullentoe

    sullentoe

    [23]Jul 24, 2008
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    I dont think Uncle Iroh played a very big part in Azula's life. IMO, she wasnt jeolous of Zuco and Iroh's relationship, rather, the way she spoke of uncle being a pot belly hedomist, is exaclty what she thought of him. The person who wrote the analyisis about the doll Azula receved from uncle and how she was jeolous of Zuco's knife is not a matter of relationship but more gender. He claims that the doll is from a street vendor market, while zuco got a really valuable knife. We dont know if the doll is cheep. Perhaps the doll was somthing only the daughters of nobles can afford to play with. Who knows, we dont know if its cheep or valuable. But what we do know is an earth kingdom lady dressed in the latest fasion is not ment for a boy, at least in the sexist society that is the avatar world(and our own). To azula, sitting around, dressing the doll combing the hair, is not what she is about. But Iroh who bearly knows her fierce worrior spirit, tells her, "here little girl, your so adorable, go play with this pretty doll". While to zuco, hes saying, "your a MAN!!, you are my brave fire nation warrior nefew. This weapon of war is sutiable for you!!"

    Azula, who mastered bending electricity, who is mentally phisicaly, and skill wise a superior warrior than zuco in may ways receves a doll because shes a girl, while zuco the emo no talent punk brother of mine who didn't diserve, received a knife. I think the doll gesture was more a gender thing than a relationship thing, although this was not really consiquetial to azulas self esteem because he knows fully well she is by far supiror to any human being.

    Theres been a lot of attempts to humanize and imagine behind the behavior and mask about what azula has been thinking. And i agree that very early in childhood, she may have changed for the worst, but during a lot of her teenage life, chasing Aang zuco, i dont agree that her motives were based on lonliness, and starving for affection of driven by emotional vulnerablitlity. But rather choices she made to follow throught with her plan. She may have very hidden and opressed issues but for the most part, she was cool calm and collected. Its going to far for me to say she converted zuco on her side to come back to the fire nation because she wanted him close with her. She did it for her plan. She made bad choices, at least bad in the long run were it would come back to her. Like the short term benifit to taking control of the dai lee was she would take ba sing se. But in the long run, she wouldnt trust them because, how dose she know if they might betray her the same way they did long fan? Or manipulating with fear, ty lee and mai, in the short run, they would join her as allies. In the long run, its a negitve relationship to use fear to make people do what you want them to do. Azula's relationship with ty lee mai would deteriorate with because of this negativity.

    Perhaps its not her relationships and emotional weaknesses but her negative decisions that came back to haunt her. She planted bad seeds in her mind she reaped the bad fruit which would cause her mental suffering. And yes it is her fault, and the fault of her upbringing, rather than pinning everything on the past and how it effects her emotionally at the present. It isnt as much about one difinitive relationship to zuco or ursa or ozai that she was so bad. And in the end, its just very sad. But shes young, and maybe she will change.

    Edited on 07/24/2008 2:23pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of slumshoes

    slumshoes

    [24]Jul 25, 2008
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    Maylene wrote:
    slumshoes wrote:
    I can't believe I read all that. I don't usually read very long posts (this is probably the longest). But thank God that I did. Who ever wrote this in depth analysis on Azula (who is my favorite character by the way) knows his or her stuff.

    And yes, I agree to everything. I usually take the scenes for granted where Azula is with her family. Now I know why she broke down after Katara healed Zuko. It was of jealousy once again of her brother. Seeing Zuko with someone who cares for him made her realize how alone she is in the world. I feel sorry for her. I really hope Zuko would just banish or something besides prison (or rehab).


    Thank this man here: . He PMed me of the link. And like you I was blown away and agreed almost with all of it.



    Axrendale wrote:
    That is definitely a great theory, not to mention very interesting to read. I agree with whoever wrote this that Azula's jealousy of her brother mostlikely played a huge role in her downfall, as exhibited by the sheer hatred of him she displayed in the final episodes. But I still believe that Ursa, not Zuko, was the main catalyst. But definitely great points. I think that Azula focussed a lot of her hatred on the people that shw saw as standing in her way. She percieved Zuko and Iroh as being the greatest obstacles to the two thngs that she wanted most in the world: Ursa's love and the throne (in that order). Eventually, Iroh ceased to be threat regarding either, but I think that whoever wrote the theory above was right abought Azula feeling great resentment towards him for being closer to Zuko (anyone who gave Azula a doll obviously didn't know her at all). Azula came to convince herself that trust and love were for fools because she wanted them to be for fools, so she wouldn't feel like she had lost something important (which she had). I think that regarding the Agni Kai, Azula's chief motive for shooting at Katara was to take Zuko down. Having seen her only a couple of times it's quite possible that Azula didn't even recognze Katara, her main irk with her being that she was going to try and help Zuko.

    So very true about the doll. But you know, I don't think Azula's reason (at least main one) for going after Katara was to take Zuko down--she could have done that in a flash with another lightning move and Zuko being unable to move. I think she did that, to keep him down but not totally kill him. If that makes sense...But I don't know.


    Ok. But why would Azula hit Katara, unless she knew Zuko have some feelings for the girl. To me, Azula was testing her brother. If Zuko did not intercept the lightning it would just confirm that he cares only for the Throne, but he didn't. Zuko took the hit, and Azula laughed maniacally because now she knows how to "really hurt" her brother; and that is seeing someone he cares for die right there. That is why she didn't finish Zuko off when he was down, and went for Katara instead. She is really sadistic, and if she got hold of Katara, it is obvious Azula would execute her right in front of Zuko, and probably leave Zuko in pain (both physically and emotionally). At least, that's what I think...
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  • Avatar of mark426

    mark426

    [25]Jul 25, 2008
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    Bumped, because this is a great thread that deserves to be on the first page.
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  • Avatar of PsychoPass

    PsychoPass

    [26]Jul 25, 2008
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    I'm working on a wall of text right now... It should be done this weekend.
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  • Avatar of Halostar11

    Halostar11

    [27]Jul 25, 2008
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    inb4 tl;dr... surprisingly.

    My god thats alot, but i'm glad i read all of it. I think you're right about if Iroh can redeem himself, then Azula can. But, there was always that little thing that showed the slightest glance of evil. So unless Azula can get rid of that, i don't think she has a chance of redemption.
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  • Avatar of inuyashaluva18

    inuyashaluva18

    [28]Jul 25, 2008
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    BUmped!

    I just thought about something a few days ago....

    In TBR, when Azula says "because I'm a people person", was that a hint of what was to come (breakdown) or did it have some deeper meaning?

    Edited on 07/25/2008 6:03pm
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  • Avatar of Chaospyro

    Chaospyro

    [29]Jul 25, 2008
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    Excellently written thread.

    Azula can redeem herself but like you said she probably needs to know that she is accepted and loved by her mother. Also I think Ty lee and Mai would have to have some part in her redemption, because for most of her life they were the two who she trusted and after their betrayal she started feeling paranoid about everyone else and leading to her derailing.

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    Halostar11

    [30]Jul 25, 2008
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    inuyashaluva18 wrote:

    BUmped!

    I just thought about something a few days ago....

    In TBR, when Azula says "because I'm a people person", was that a hint of what was to come (breakdown) or did it have some deeper meaning?



    Woahs, i never even noticed that little tid-bit. Thats like, Avatar easter-egg of the season.
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  • Avatar of Maylene

    Maylene

    [31]Jul 25, 2008
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    inuyashaluva18 wrote:

    BUmped!

    I just thought about something a few days ago....

    In TBR, when Azula says "because I'm a people person", was that a hint of what was to come (breakdown) or did it have some deeper meaning?



    Actually I thought it was referring to The Beach, when it was obvious she didn't know how to be a people person. XD But that's just me.
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  • Avatar of Falcondude123

    Falcondude123

    [32]Jul 25, 2008
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    Here is what goes on in Azula's head:

    *sees icecream man* 'Icecream man works with icecream, icecream is half ice, ice is waterbending, icecream man is a threat, icecream man must die!' *zaps*

    *sees ladybug* 'Ladybug is small, small is hard to notice, hard to notice means infiltration, infiltration means spying, ladybug is a spy, ladybug must die!' *zaps*

    *sees Winnie the Pooh* 'Pooh is... well, pooh!" *zaps*

    Actually I can understand that last one. DIE POOH!!!!
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [33]Jul 25, 2008
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    Maylene wrote:
    inuyashaluva18 wrote:

    BUmped!

    I just thought about something a few days ago....

    In TBR, when Azula says "because I'm a people person", was that a hint of what was to come (breakdown) or did it have some deeper meaning?

    Actually I thought it was referring to The Beach, when it was obvious she didn't know how to be a people person. XD But that's just me.

    Azula is a "people person" in the sense that she is brilliant at reading people and manipulating them (think of what she did with the Dai Lee). That's her problem really - all she knows how to do is manipulate and control people. She has no idea how to interact with someone in a purely friendly manner.

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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [34]Jul 25, 2008
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    Well, we know what happened to Azula. According to Nick.com, she is in a mental health facility with around the clock supervision.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [35]Jul 25, 2008
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    SomethingI just noticed watching the Zuko/Azula battle again, did anyone else notice the similarites between it and the Zuko/Zhao Agni Kai back in 103? Here's a lay out of the two battles:

    Zuko vs Zhao

    - Fight opens with Zuko hurling several ineffectual attacks at Zhao.

    -Zhao blocks all attacks easily.

    -Close-up on Zuko's face as he's panting, unnerved by Zhao's unexpected skill.

    -Fight resumes and combatants continue attacking eachother.

    -Zhao knocks Zuko down with a particularly powerful attack.

    -As Zhao is moving in for the kill, Zuko pulls off an unexpected move that catches Zhao off guard.

    -Zuko wins the fight.

    -Iroh's intervention is needed to save Zuko from his dishonorable opponent.

    Azula vs Zuko

    -Fight opens with Azula hurling a number of ineffectual attacks at Zuko.

    -Zuko blocks all attacks easily.

    -Close-up on Azula's face as she's panting, unnerved by Zuko's unexpected skill.

    -Fight resumes and opponents continue attacking eachother.

    -Zuko knocks Azula down with a particularly powerful attack.

    -As Zuko should be moving in for the kill Azula pulls off an unexpected move that catches Zuko off guard.

    -Azula wins the fight.

    -Katara's intervention is needed to save Zuko from his insane opponent.

    Just something I thought I'd point out.

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [36]Jul 25, 2008
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    Jackson5050 wrote:
    Well, we know what happened to Azula. According to Nick.com, she is in a mental health facility with around the clock supervision.

    Link please.

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  • Avatar of dantedones

    dantedones

    [37]Jul 25, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:
    Maylene wrote:
    inuyashaluva18 wrote:

    BUmped!

    I just thought about something a few days ago....

    In TBR, when Azula says "because I'm a people person", was that a hint of what was to come (breakdown) or did it have some deeper meaning?

    Actually I thought it was referring to The Beach, when it was obvious she didn't know how to be a people person. XD But that's just me.

    Azula is a "people person" in the sense that she is brilliant at reading people and manipulating them (think of what she did with the Dai Lee). That's her problem really - all she knows how to do is manipulate and control people. She has no idea how to interact with someone in a purely friendly manner.

    yeah look at her in The Beach
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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [38]Jul 25, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    Jackson5050 wrote:
    Well, we know what happened to Azula. According to Nick.com, she is in a mental health facility with around the clock supervision.

    Link please.

    As close to a link of it as I can get. Just click on an episode for Book 3 and underneath the video is a list of episodes. Click on 3-20 and the info should be in the characters section.

    http://www.nick.com/shows/avatar/index.jhtml
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [39]Jul 25, 2008
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    Jackson5050 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    Jackson5050 wrote:
    Well, we know what happened to Azula. According to Nick.com, she is in a mental health facility with around the clock supervision.

    Link please.

    As close to a link of it as I can get. Just click on an episode for Book 3 and underneath the video is a list of episodes. Click on 3-20 and the info should be in the characters section. http://www.nick.com/shows/avatar/index.jhtml

    Quite frankly, I trust information from Nickelodeon about as far as I could throw Appa (not at all).

    On the other hand, a story about how Azula busts her way out of the mental facility to escape would certainly be an interesting one.

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  • Avatar of vampys_girl

    vampys_girl

    [40]Jul 26, 2008
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    It is possible that Azula could heal after her breakdown bot it is also difficult. I believe it will take some time. Although both theories are well developed I agree with the theory of axrendale more. I think that Ursa will play the most important part in Azula's healing process. It is true that Azula has always been jealous of Zuko but it never would have started if Ursa would have loved them equally. Iroh also plays a big roll in Azula's jealousy towards Zuko. As a child we see that Azula did not like her uncle but this is mainly because she is repeating what she hears from her father. In S2 we see that she still doesn't like her uncle. I believe that this is her way of dealing with the fact that she wishes that Iroh would have been a mentor to her just like she was to Zuko. Zuko is not the cause of all her problems, but she blames them all on him. If Azula is going to heal she needs to first find her mother and clear things with her. She needs to feel loved and supported by her mother. Mai and Ty Lee will be the next step. After she feels this motherly love she might be able to understand Mai's decision to choose love over fear. Iroh most play his part too. After knowing what real love feels like she will realize that she was wrong in trying to use fear to control people (deep down she knows this but can't accept it) She will probably apologyce to Mai and Ty Lee for the way she treated them. Azula most realize also that her father never truly loved her, cause if he would have loved her he wouldn't have tried to mold her into the perfect child. Azula will slowly learn to be herself, and not the perfect child her father wanted her to be. Zuko will be the last step in Azulas recovery. After she has her mother's love and she no longer feels like Zuko's life is better than hers she can rebuild a sibling relationship with him. This process is going to be long and difficult. It will take an entire new series just so that in the end Azula could be happy and sane.

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