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  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [41]Aug 3, 2009
    • member since: 03/07/06
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    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    ahhhh yess been away and things to respond to.

    1) edmasterofchaos yes and no Jeong Jeong a high level member of the order of the white lotus couldn't be the one to teach Aang firebending EVEN THOUGH he was his first teacher he just couldn't have done it on the go because he was busy leading other things like his movement against the fire nation

    Yeah, that is a good point, at most, Jeong Jeong could have helped prior to the eclipse, which of course didn't happen, so yeah, your argument there is logically correct.

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    and Zuko as said has the bloodline that makes him SIMILAR to the avatar remembering i chose my words poorly early on
    Yeah, but this ain't naruto, bloodline does not mean anything, Zuko was a capable of teaching firebending to Aang as Katara was to teach him waterbending.

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    and YES zuko was 100% essential to the series
    Yes, but, in the finale, he was, well, not as usefull and essential as in any other moment of the series.

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    it is jeong jeong that was not vital he showed up maybe a handful of times in the series by the time they came upon them(the order of the white lotus)
    2 times.
    He made Aang know how serious fire is, how the elements are different, and, he seemed to be one of the few firebenders in the White Lotus Raid, firebenders were important since they had massive power boost.

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    zuko was in JUST ABOUT every episode if not every single episode Zuko was the main ANTAGONIST for two seasons with a transistional point in season 2 where he went from antagonist to sort of anti hero i guess by the end of the series i saw that zuko was NECESSARY to the series
    yheah, i chose my words a bit poorly, he is essential to the series, but, in the finale, well he wasnt doing that many special things.

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    because even jeong jeong didn't have the experiences to truly lead in the end he didn't suffer he didn't have trials the mistakes in short he was faaaaar TOOO PURE he was a high ranking member of the fire nation army( just like iroh so that doesn't take away his purity just means complicated past common theme wow.) which means he was NEVER cast down he CHOSE to leave on a moral basishe he CHOSE to start a movement zuko was the rich kid who fought for the purpose of regaining what he lost which along the way he came to understand was ENTIRELY different than what he thought.
    So... you say that the man who realised that the fire nation was wrong, that knew the firebending ways were turning wicked, who went against his country and inspired more to do so, the original renegade FireBender who saw his own student turn away on his ways, that man is not worthy of ruling with honor?

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    OH YES zuko is VERY special all of us fight the battle of the "good" vs "evil" within but FOR HIM it was as INTENSE as his fire and his fire flowed from it. one quick point i PERSONALLY think that after the firebending masters episode zuko should have gotten the blue fire but they needed to distinguish his fire from azula's so he didn't
    Yeah, well, he had daddy issues and was too young to know that his family was not important, but his inner battle was interesting. Also, in the firebending masters, Zuko taught Aang firebending, that is all. Nothing important happened, as far as it's known, they didn't learn anything other than to shoot fire from their hands, rainbow fire, blue fire, no, they only learned normal firebending, honestly.

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    2) edmasterofchaos yes and no Aang c ould've taken Azula the avatar state takes ALOT of power he seemed to handle it well after fighting ozai but .... Aang could've burnt out after two battles thoigh azula probably wouldn't have been much of a battle but then again the writers would have made it so that it was WHICH THEN WOULD HAVE LED TO HIM BURNING OUT AFTER OZAI.
    I don't know, it's not mentioned that the Avatar state deplets one's strengh's, sure Roku got tired fast, but he was old, anyway, gotta go to college, may continue later on.

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  • Avatar of silverfoxy8472

    silverfoxy8472

    [42]Aug 17, 2009
    • member since: 01/18/08
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    wow edmasterofchaos yeeesh where to begin

    1) the thing about bloodlines here is not the same as naruto BUT it has been stated before that his unique bloodline allowed him(zuko) restore the honor of the

    fire nation because he has the blood of BOTH sozin(ozai's father and a force of chaos) and Roku( a force of order) showing the battle within him yes he was very capable of

    teaching firebending but it truly is his bloodline and the talk within the cell with iroh(the avatar and the fire lord which wow i am watching now) that prompted me to say he is smilar to the avatar

    2) well in the series finale he was a sub battle over all(main battle of course avatar vs fire lord) so it wasn't that he wasn;'t useful it was that he just wasn;'t the focus that's all

    3) first off jeong jeong was not of the blood line if you know anything about royalty overall blood can only rule with certain exception sitautions

    4) about the blue fire. the blue fire comes from being centered and calm without shame after the firebending masters zuko shared that with azula just he wasn't nuts


    5) there were a few times in the series where Aang came out exhausted even though yes he was enraged during those times but being enraged is enough to give a person a serious

    headache but not drain that much energy and yes rage can drain energy to a certain extent but still not enough to render a person completely exhausted and asleep.

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  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [43]Aug 17, 2009
    • member since: 03/07/06
    • level: 41
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    Man, i love this discussion, let's continue =)

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    wow edmasterofchaos yeeesh where to begin

    1) the thing about bloodlines here is not the same as naruto BUT it has been stated before that his unique bloodline allowed him(zuko) restore the honor of the fire nation because he has the blood of BOTH sozin(ozai's father and a force of chaos) and Roku( a force of order) showing the battle within him yes he was very capable of teaching firebending but it truly is his bloodline and the talk within the cell with iroh(the avatar and the fire lord which wow i am watching now) that prompted me to say he is smilar to the avatar

    What? they both obtained their strengh and the 'force' they are by the hard work, and in Roku's case Avatar Powerz, the blood line is symbolic, it represents that Zuko is torn between the man who wanted to rule the world and the man who had to defend it, both being equals to Zuko, no powers included.
    Yes, Iroh said he was similar to the Avatar or something, though, to be fair, again, his final persona is more of a political face, he's good, a hero and everything cool, but still, overall the thing he did to bring future peace was being the 'best' choice for being the ruler.
    Oh, and i highly doubt you saw the episode. Sozin is Ozai's grandfather, Azulon is his father, that is why he called his daughter Azula, to suck up on him.

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    2) well in the series finale he was a sub battle over all(main battle of course avatar vs fire lord) so it wasn't that he wasn;'t useful it was that he just wasn;'t the focus that's all
    No, if Azula was shown to at least be tired or injured, regardless of how much their fight was shown (which was still quite enough, though i would have LOVED to see more, it was freakin' awesome! honestly, a bit less of Aang and more of Zuko in their battles there would have been better) Zuko would have been useful, but all we saw from Azula is that she was still insane, and took down Zuko thinking Katara couldn't possibly be a threat.

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    3) first off jeong jeong was not of the blood line if you know anything about royalty overall blood can only rule with certain exception sitautions
    Hmmm.... that IS a good point, though then again "THE FIRE LORD HAS BEEN DEFEATED, OUR NATION HAS BEEN CAUSING PAIN AND FEAR FOR GENERATIONS, A NEW LORD IS NEEDED, ONE NOT TAINTED BY THE AMBITIONS OF THE ROYAL FAMILY, I HAVE WALKED THROUGH THE BURNT BATTLEFIELDS SOMETHINGSOMETHINGSOMETHING, So, i'm new cool firelord, k?" could politically work, y'know, not that it would have been as good, just saying it would work.

    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    4) about the blue fire. the blue fire comes from being centered and calm without shame after the firebending masters zuko shared that with azula just he wasn't nuts
    Actually, he didn't not once did he shoot blue fire, and even stated that he wasn't truly calm, his fire for some BS reason instead of the anger and desire to capture the avatar now came from the desire to stop the Fire Lord, so no true calmness there.


    silverfoxy8472 wrote:
    5) there were a few times in the series where Aang came out exhausted even though yes he was enraged during those times but being enraged is enough to give a person a serious headache but not drain that much energy and yes rage can drain energy to a certain extent but still not enough to render a person completely exhausted and asleep.
    It's a cartoon, kids can do hardcore body training and manipulate quemical mixes and reactions without muscle de-generation, yet if you don't sleep for ONE night you are doomed. So, my case is proven false.

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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [44]Aug 18, 2009
    • member since: 08/05/06
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    I'd judt like to but in and say that you two are saying the same things at times but you're trying to disagree (even though you don't) and at others its like one person is responding to the wrong argument so you guys might wanna clarify.
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  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [45]Aug 18, 2009
    • member since: 03/07/06
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    gilvatar wrote:
    I'd judt like to but in and say that you two are saying the same things at times but you're trying to disagree (even though you don't) and at others its like one person is responding to the wrong argument so you guys might wanna clarify.
    Guess you're right.



    To make it clear, i think:
    -Zuko is a person who by becoming Fire Lord could help ease in to bring peace on the world and heal the scars left by the firelord, but he did not Bring the balance.
    -Other than meaning that the Avatar and Sozin are equals in Zuko's family, the blood means nothing.
    -Zuko is a good and strong firebender, there are many better than him.
    -Zuko is similar to the avatar for his own merits, for what he could do by being of the royal family and by what he could do because of traveling in the earth kingdom, his relationship with Roku just is a little extra touch, almost meaningless.
    -The FireBending Masters was a lame, useless episode.

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  • Avatar of silverfoxy8472

    silverfoxy8472

    [46]Aug 27, 2009
    • member since: 01/18/08
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    ok i am taking a break from the topic and going SLIGHTLY off topic but it shouldn't be too bad.

    in th Sozin's comet the old masters Aang recives the following wisdom(my reason for this will become clear in a second)

    Avatar Roku - "Be Decisive"

    Avatar Kyoshi- "Only justice will bring peace"

    Avatr Kuruk- "Actively shape your destiny and the destiny of the world"

    Avatar Ynagchen-"Selfless duty calls you to sacrifice your own spiritual needs and do whatever it takes to protect the world"

    Avatar Aang-comes to the INCORRECT conclusion that all of them are asking him to kill the firelod only 25% of them ( and of all of them it is the AIRBENDER?) can even be REMOTELY interpreted as such but even the 25% that can be interpreted as such can still interpreted in other ways my question overall is HOW IN ALLL THAT IS HOLY DID Aang come to the conlusion that they were asking him to kill the firelord?

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  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [47]Aug 27, 2009
    • member since: 03/07/06
    • level: 41
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    silverfoxy8472 wrote:

    ok i am taking a break from the topic and going SLIGHTLY off topic but it shouldn't be too bad.

    in th Sozin's comet the old masters Aang recives the following wisdom(my reason for this will become clear in a second)

    Avatar Roku - "Be Decisive"

    Avatar Kyoshi- "Only justice will bring peace"

    Avatr Kuruk- "Actively shape your destiny and the destiny of the world"

    Avatar Ynagchen-"Selfless duty calls you to sacrifice your own spiritual needs and do whatever it takes to protect the world"

    Avatar Aang-comes to the INCORRECT conclusion that all of them are asking him to kill the firelod only 25% of them ( and of all of them it is the AIRBENDER?) can even be REMOTELY interpreted as such but even the 25% that can be interpreted as such can still interpreted in other ways my question overall is HOW IN ALLL THAT IS HOLY DID Aang come to the conlusion that they were asking him to kill the firelord?
    Ok, if you are joking, sorry, it's just that people on the internet do such things at times that it's hard to know when someone is trolling or not.

    Anyway:
    Roku: Be Decisive, i warned the firelord a couple of times, threatening his life, in the end that didn't help, and if threatening to kill him isn't decisive, well, it's obvious what is.
    Kyoshi: Justice Will Bring Peace, evil overlord wanted to rule the world, i kill him, everyone happy, see what i'm trying to tell you?
    Kuruk: Actively Shape Your Destiny And The Destiny Of The World, ok, this one doesn't involve death, just don't be lazy.
    Ynagchen: Selfless duty calls you to sacrifice your own spiritual needs and do whatever it takes to protect the world, Kill him, your own soul is but a noble sacrifice compared to the entire world.

    Aang, finds magical turtle lion who was shown as a picture once time in the library, who conviniently gives Aang the power to remove the bending powers from anyone, so of course he uses it to get a freebie from killing for life, so... Aang says 'Screw You!' to his existance, i suppose, though to keep his purity.... going against past avatars..... now i'm not sure if spiritbending made him more of a man or more of a god....
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  • Avatar of silverfoxy8472

    silverfoxy8472

    [48]Aug 28, 2009
    • member since: 01/18/08
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    ahhhh yes edmasterofchaos that is why i like you

    first off yes your logic is right BUT you logic is wrong as well the statements apply best to the PAST avatar's time. now for a reinterpretation of the advice given by by the past avatars

    1) Avatar Roku- he said be decisive this mean be sure of your couse of action NOT NECESSARILY KILL THE FIRELORD.

    2) Avatar Kyoshi- She said only justice will bring peace in her time maybe it may have meant killing chin because she didn't know things like airbenders do in this case this means be just and fair in your actions to bring balance and even kyoshi had her limits to what she was willing to do and she didn't truly kill chin his stubborness did( yes i know she said i don't see the difference) in Aangs mind it does make a difference because otherwise well it would be very difficult knowing his past life was a murderer(yes i know she essentially confessed) but again beuing just and fair doesn't NECESSARILY mean that you HAVE to kill let us remember as it was Kyoshi was the one whom Aang had the least connection to even said in the trivia " After Recieving Kyoshi's wisdom Aang remarks "I knew I shouldn't have asked Kyoshi" the resentment in Aang's reaction could be related to the events of Avatar Day where Kyoshi's confession undermined Aang's defence when standing trial for Chin the Conqueror(aka Chin the Great),in a past life. Or it could refer to the fact he and Kyoshi have differing views on life and how to handle problems,in the same manner that Aang and Toph have different views and ideas on how to handle things (which was pointed out in Bitter Work)

    3)Avatar Kuruk -He said "Actively shape your destiny and the destiny of the world wow we agree as you said the same thing i was thinking great minds huh?

    4) Avatar YangChen- She said "Selfless duty calls you to sacrifice your own spirtual needs and do whatever it takes to protect the world" again though it maybe a bit harder to see doing whatever it takes has many interpretation ESPECIALLY considering she is AN AIRBENDER they are known for finding creative ways to solve problems in fact did do whatever it took he EVEN TEAMED UP WITH A FORMER ENEMY to learn firebending. IN FACT ALL OF Aang LIVED this one. All of Aang's adventures revolved around selfless duty except the one on kyoshi island (The Warriors of Kyoshi) but for the most part the whole series revolved around selfless duty more or less i mean he got LIMITED time for fun and sometimes fun turned into lessons not mention in (Bitter work) Aang dealt with LIGHT torture and don't tell me what Toph did was not torture VERY LIGHT and with a purpose but still torture nonetheless. He endured a general willing to put Aang's life at risk and the lives of Aang's loved ones at risk all in the name of bringing the war to a quicker close. So I ask HOW CAN ANY OF THIS NOT BE CONSIDERED SELFLESS DUTY AND SACRIFICING HIS OWN SPIRITUAL NEEDS . the whole series he lives YangChen's wisdom.

    Edmasterofchaos thank you for coming to the conlusion that my previous post was NOT a joke even if such stuff is done on the net i don't do that.

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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [49]Aug 28, 2009
    • member since: 08/05/06
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    silverfoxy8472 wrote:

    ok i am taking a break from the topic and going SLIGHTLY off topic but it shouldn't be too bad.

    in th Sozin's comet the old masters Aang recives the following wisdom(my reason for this will become clear in a second)

    Avatar Roku - "Be Decisive"

    Avatar Kyoshi- "Only justice will bring peace"

    Avatr Kuruk- "Actively shape your destiny and the destiny of the world"

    Avatar Ynagchen-"Selfless duty calls you to sacrifice your own spiritual needs and do whatever it takes to protect the world"

    Avatar Aang-comes to the INCORRECT conclusion that all of them are asking him to kill the firelod only 25% of them ( and of all of them it is the AIRBENDER?) can even be REMOTELY interpreted as such but even the 25% that can be interpreted as such can still interpreted in other ways my question overall is HOW IN ALLL THAT IS HOLY DID Aang come to the conlusion that they were asking him to kill the firelord?
    because 1 the idea was already in his head and 2 in each story the avatar killed someone, threatened to kill someone, or wanted to kill someone but couldn't. Avatar Yangchen actually was the only personn w/out a killing someone story and never actually hinted at killing Ozai. She just said that he can't seperate himself from the world like other monks because his duity is to the world.
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  • Avatar of silverfoxy8472

    silverfoxy8472

    [50]Aug 31, 2009
    • member since: 01/18/08
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    ooooooh gilvatar so close but i also saw it recently.

    now unless i am remembering wrong Avatar Kuruk's story didn't involve killing someone either it involved him LOSING someone but no killing as far as i remember.

    now to the other avatars

    Avatar Roku- he showed mercy yes i am sure his regret has to do with not killing sozin BUT STILL in the end HE DIDN'T KILL HIM showing strength in friendship and NOT killing rather than killing even if he regrets it and it led to war which shows that even Avatar Roku tried to find ANOTHER WAY.

    Avatar Kyoshi- she gives off this stern appearance but if it TRULY came down to it could she have REALLY DONE IT? AND YET AGAIN she found another way to end theconflict showing that Aang's way is the correct way. If She was soooo intent on killing him in the name of justice then she could have firebended him to death SHE HAD A LAVA LAKE RIGHT THERE AND CAME DAM CLOSE TO BURNING HIM WITH IT(look when she is seperating kyoshi island from the mainland) and could have killed him with ANY AND ALL OF THE ELEMENTS (water icicle spear,Earth Rock spears,Fire lightning or fireballs ect ect Air air blades sliced him to death) oh yes remember Aang has SERIOUS resentment with Kyoshi as well reasons mentioned in my previous post.

    Avatar Kuruk- see above.

    Avatar Yangchen- she didn't even come close to ANYTHING having to do with killing she is an airbender pacifist thank you very much

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  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [51]Aug 31, 2009
    • member since: 03/07/06
    • level: 41
    • rank: Sleestack
    • posts: 24,440
    silverfoxy8472 wrote:

    ooooooh gilvatar so close but i also saw it recently.

    now unless i am remembering wrong Avatar Kuruk's story didn't involve killing someone either it involved him LOSING someone but no killing as far as i remember.

    now to the other avatars

    Avatar Roku- he showed mercy yes i am sure his regret has to do with not killing sozin BUT STILL in the end HE DIDN'T KILL HIM showing strength in friendship and NOT killing rather than killing even if he regrets it and it led to war which shows that even Avatar Roku tried to find ANOTHER WAY.

    Avatar Kyoshi- she gives off this stern appearance but if it TRULY came down to it could she have REALLY DONE IT? AND YET AGAIN she found another way to end theconflict showing that Aang's way is the correct way. If She was soooo intent on killing him in the name of justice then she could have firebended him to death SHE HAD A LAVA LAKE RIGHT THERE AND CAME DAM CLOSE TO BURNING HIM WITH IT(look when she is seperating kyoshi island from the mainland) and could have killed him with ANY AND ALL OF THE ELEMENTS (water icicle spear,Earth Rock spears,Fire lightning or fireballs ect ect Air air blades sliced him to death) oh yes remember Aang has SERIOUS resentment with Kyoshi as well reasons mentioned in my previous post.

    Avatar Kuruk- see above.

    Avatar Yangchen- she didn't even come close to ANYTHING having to do with killing she is an airbender pacifist thank you very much

    Gilvatar's post said that the avatars story involved someone being killed (Kyoshi), someone threatened to kill someone (Roku) and someone wanting to kill someone (Kuruk)

    Roku: He lamented many many times that he didn't kill Sozin, and, if NOT killing him was a mistake, we can assume he wants Aang to not make a mistake, which would be to kill Ozai.

    Kyoshi: she killed a guy, accidentally but yeah, that worked, we have no clue if she would have killed the evil overlord that wanted to rule the world after she made her little island.

    Kuruk: as seen in the mini flash webisodes between season 2 and 3 (avatars giving info to Aang) he REALLY hates the spirit thingy that eat his wife, he's been hunting for him apperantly ever since he (Kuruk) died, so, yeah, Kuruk wants that evil spirit dead...er?

    Yangchen: Didn't you say earlier she was the one who involved killing? anyway, she says to Aang that he must sacrifice his morals, so far he kicked ass and the only moral he kept saying he would keep was Not Killing.

    Also, if they aren't saying to kill Ozai, what do you think the avatars are telling Aang exactly.
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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [53]Aug 31, 2009
    • member since: 08/05/06
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    since ed already cleared up the 1st part I'm just gonna let u read his post. And I did say that Avatar Yangchen was the only one w/out a killing story.
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