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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Avatar Finale WHAT IF

  • Avatar of crazyteen000

    crazyteen000

    [1]Jul 19, 2008
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    What do you think should of happened? And for those unfortuneate people who lacked seeing it could some one ...post...info...or....L.....I...N..K..... for video?
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  • Avatar of Jouai

    Jouai

    [2]Jul 19, 2008
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    I honestly give it a C+ overall, because while the action scenes were phenomenal as expected/as always, the show's production team having focused so much upon that resulted in the diminished aspects of other elements to the finale. The fanatical build up to the showdown with Phoenix King Ozai turned out to be quite the letdown (for me, at least), because the entire time, during the first and second half of their battle, it turned out to be nothing more than a game of cat and mouse. He chased Aang with the heavy offense, while Aang tried desperately not to get hit. Then it was Avatar Aang chasing after him with HIS heavy offense, while OZAI tried his best not to get destroyed. I'd expected/hoped for, after three years of talk-talk-TALK about their inevitable fight, that it WOULD have been a much more satisfying, impressive one at that, versus just a brilliant light show, basically.

    And I didn't like the way Ozai's tyrannical credibility was instantly severed the moment Aang stripped him of his Bending abilities. Said move was impressive, of course, but again, after years of making Ozai come off as and actually was this horrid, unstoppable/unfeeling force, in SECONDS he was turned into a laughing stock and pathetic, drooling little invalid.

    Disappointing.

    Then there was Azula. HER battle with both Zuko and Katara was truly one of, if not the best one shown throughout the entire finale. THEIRS was a true battle, with her giving and deflecting attacks without end and vice versa, and neither side (save Katara, I suppose) backing down and running away in the way Aang had for Ozai and Ozai for Aang later on. It was steady, consistent, realistic, and certainly helped the overall series live up to its good name and reputation for fantastic fight scenes (especially once Katara finally defeated her, which I was glad that she had been the one to do it instead of Zuko. To ME, it didn't really matter if Zuko did defeat Azula, because he already won the battle long before that day, regardless).

    But I'm disappointed that I didn't get to see her within the aftermath of it all. I got to see Ozai; why not her? Where is she now? At the Boiling Rock, or in some other cell housed within the palace grounds like her father? It would have been great (again, for me, at least) to have seen her chained up or in some similar fashion, avidly insane now and completely disheveled in appearance, signifying the fall of another great power.

    Iroh I was happy to see return, as expected, but was disappointed in his performance, as well. The last time we saw him was on the day of the eclipse. And according to the guard Zuko confronted when he went to break him out, Iroh had done so for himself with frightening power not parallel to anything else that guard had ever seen before. So I was expecting him to unleash said power during his second siege of Ba Sing Se on behalf of the Earth Kingdom and former king (and especially with the added boost of the comet? Forget it). But the only thing he did was tap into its power for a moment and begin the attacks, and then burned the Fire Nation flag. I understand, from his perspective, I suppose, his desire not to enact any more violence. But again, with the great build up and focus upon his absence all this time, and then the dramatic escape he'd pulled off (and getting buff to do it), his return, in THAT regard, at least, was pretty deflated.

    As for the now official canon pairings, I don't really care for either way. Only thing I will comment upon is that, while it was already known that Zuko cared for Mai and obviously vice versa, their reunion was a bit out of place and artificial in terms of emotion. That is, on the side of ZUKO, who, after having leaving her during the eclipse and again while escaping the Boiling Rock, never once mentioned her. I'm sure he thought of her, but being as I am not a mind reader, I'd never been none the wiser over the matter. It was just as though he'd stopped caring for her altogether, or, at the very least, as a lover. Yet as soon as everything was finished and only tying up loose ends remained in the last few minutes of the finale, he was suddenly just as affectionate and overcome by emotion to have her back, as though he'd always been talking about her/missing her in every episode since their separation.

    I'm not saying I expected/wanted him to gush or bemoan over her in every episode up until the finale, but he DID continue to lament over his betrayal with his uncle in almost every episode since joining the Gaang. So, it was just a bit disconcerting, the way that had played out.

    Finally, it was quite difficult to understand the lion-turtle (an idea that has been done to death, IMO, the aspect or idea of a giant, island-like turtle; however, then again, what idea hasn't been?), and his blurb about, BASICALLY, as what it all had come down to, being able to take away the Bending from someone. That act, itself, definitely took away the whole flavor and admiration I had for Aang and his constant struggle to persevere. NOW, whenever bothered by a difficult decision, all he has to do is take away a would-be foe's Bending and that'll be that. It was sort of, as it felt to me, an easy cop-out for the writers as a way to readily explain and solve Aang's problem and conflict with having to kill Ozai, but not wishing to. For what? JUST so he wouldn't have to compromise his beliefs, teachings, and soul/inner karma? But as Zuko would say, that's just life. he was/is the Avatar. Taking on the impossible and making difficult, gut-wrenching decisions comes with the territory. Avatar Yang Chen seemed to understand that, and every Avatar before him who had come to visit him and give consultation.

    It just really seemed like the writers/creators were just protecting Aang from being plagued any further from any more guilt or what have you, and that was another disappointment for me to have seen.

    Anyhow. Again, overall, I would and do give the finale a C+, for the reasons I'd stated. Nonetheless, I am glad to have watched it and that it is all over.
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  • Avatar of Water78

    Water78

    [3]Jul 19, 2008
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    i give it a b+ - stunning animation,great visuals finally brining a closure but the plot was sort of weak
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  • Avatar of amdragfreak

    amdragfreak

    [4]Jul 19, 2008
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    5/10. There were some good lines and great music, but it just wasn't satisfying.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [5]Jul 19, 2008
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    I absolutely loved it. It satisfied everything that I expected out of the finale and more. It was beautiful and right and perfect. 10/10!
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  • Avatar of Jouai

    Jouai

    [6]Jul 19, 2008
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    amdragfreak wrote:
    5/10. There were some good lines and great music, but it just wasn't satisfying.


    Precisely. And that was extra disappointing, as well, as you'd just pointed out, that the music was all the more moving than normal, but was unable to effectively convey the great emotion and drive the overall plot should have held. So yeah, it really wasn't very satisfying.
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  • Avatar of Token_BlackGuy

    Token_BlackGuy

    [7]Jul 19, 2008
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    Pretty disappointed with the overall final episodes. Sure, we were going to wonder what happened to some characters, but why go the extra mile to have Zuko ask about his mother and still not get an answer for us. Azula and her final staying place?

    I almost feel like ending the series after crossroads of destiny, while having us always wonder what might have been, would actually have been as good as the actual ending.

    Too much was left unanswered, and while I know not everything would be answered, as there are always questions with any show. it seems like the powers that be seemed to linger along the whole third season and try to put alot into a few episodes. Too many filler episodes this season. To be honest, I felt Ember Island Players was more of a filler than anything. How could you have such a meaningless episode right before the final?

    Oh well. I enjoy Avatar, as do my kids, but I feel like the ending was a disappointment. I'd think you can almost compare it to the way Inuyasha ended.
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  • Avatar of Token_BlackGuy

    Token_BlackGuy

    [8]Jul 19, 2008
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    crazyteen000 wrote:
    What do you think should of happened? And for those unfortuneate people who lacked seeing it could some one ...post...info...or....L.....I...N..K..... for video?

    Don't really need a link, the DVD will be out in a week or 2. I would suppose Nick might show it again soon, but seeing as how most seem to think that they failed at properly utilizing this show, I would not hold my breath.

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  • Avatar of Jouai

    Jouai

    [9]Jul 19, 2008
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    Token_BlackGuy wrote:
    I'd think you can almost compare it to the way Inuyasha ended.


    That's precisely what it felt like, TBG. Good point/thanks for reminding me of that.
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  • Avatar of WhereisUrsa

    WhereisUrsa

    [10]Jul 19, 2008
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    3 thoughts:

    1 - I agree the Mai/Zuko reunion was definitely too rushed. I just wasn't buying that one.

    2 - What if Aang could have met Ursa somehow either in the spirit world or in the flesh as one of the "givers of advice" about murder? She could have recounted her tale about having killed the previous fire lord etc. and what became of her. she could have told her tale as either a pro or anti murder argument depending on how you look at it. Killing the Fire Lord saved Zuko, but her absence after that moment helped create Crazula etc. I think that would have been a good way to tie that loose thread up pretty quickly. No?

    3 - Also, did anyone else think the Lion Turtle was a bit to deus ex machina? I kind of thought that came out of left field. I am glad Aang didn't kill Ozai though.

    Anyways, I really want to know about Ursa. My money is on her having died. Although maybe they'll make a special to clear this mystery up xx crosses fingers xx

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  • Avatar of Darth_Scarth

    Darth_Scarth

    [11]Jul 19, 2008
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    Zuko should have told Aang that he was Roku's great grandson. I also hoped that Zuko would generate lightning.
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  • Avatar of Jouai

    Jouai

    [12]Jul 19, 2008
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    WhereisUrsa wrote:
    did anyone else think the Lion Turtle was a bit to deus ex machina? I kind of thought that came out of left field.


    It wasn't whether or not the lionturtle was deux ex machina; it WAS. Plain and simple. Where was it all this time, especially during the eclipse, or the siege of both the South Pole and Ba Sing Se. Or, Hell, even 100 years ago on Roku's behalf, assuming it or even its ancestors live that long.

    That's honestly all it was, W.I.U. You summed it up right there.
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  • Avatar of fire_wheels

    fire_wheels

    [13]Jul 19, 2008
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    crazyteen wasn't asking for your reviews, lol.

    i sort of agree with jouai about the Ozai and Aang fight being a little bit of a letdown after all that. but the alternative to beating Ozai was a good/cool idea..they're not going to have Aang kill him in any way cause it's a Nickelodeon show. plus this is Aang's legacy, he went against the actions and advice of all past avatars and succeeded, and defeated the fire lord without violence.

    for one, i was hoping that Azula wouldnt of appeared til after defeating Ozai, then the group would wonder where Azula is, and then they'd have an even greater evil to face much later on when they're older..something like that. but that was ruined.

    Edited on 07/19/2008 10:21pm
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  • Avatar of Jouai

    Jouai

    [14]Jul 19, 2008
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    fire_wheels wrote:

    crazyteen wasn't asking for your reviews, lol.

    i sort of agree with jouai about the Ozai and Aang fight being a little bit of a letdown after all that. but the alternative to beating Ozai was a good/cool idea..they're not going to have Aang kill him in any way cause it's a Nickelodeon show. plus this is Aang's legacy, he went against the actions and advice of all past avatars and succeeded, and defeated the fire lord without violence.

    for one, i was hoping that Azula wouldnt of appeared til after defeating Ozai, then the group would wonder where Azula is, and then they'd have an even greater evil to face much later on when they're older..something like that. but that was ruined.



    Thanks for partially concurring with me, fire, and i'm aware crazyteen hadn't asked for official reviews from those who'd watched the finale. But, for ME, at least, having read the topic's title of what if's and mentioned the finale, it had brought forth my desire TO give my extended opinion that ended up being a review in the end, yeah. *Shrugs* As with every other thread in here, I'm sure it can/will be locked if its direction disrupts the format/premise of the topic.
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  • Avatar of bigoverpac666

    bigoverpac666

    [15]Jul 19, 2008
    • member since: 07/08/08
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    7/10.
    Not what I wanted.
    Where's Azula?
    Will Zuko find his mom?
    Iroh only returned for the last few episodes.
    And
    Toph needs a better ending.

    Overall, good fight scenes, good music, but not a satisfying ending for me.

    Looking forward to the Movies though.
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  • Avatar of Jouai

    Jouai

    [16]Jul 19, 2008
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    fire_wheels wrote:
    they're not going to have Aang kill him in any way cause it's a Nickelodeon show.


    Forgot to add, in my other post, that even though, true, this was/is a Nickelodeon funded show, it hadn't stopped them from killing off Jet, killing other loved ones/characters, period, ruthlessly, and/or throwing around the word "kill" or "die" without a hesitant care.

    To not wish to kill Ozai for the sake of not marring impressionable young viewers mindsets would be quite the hypocritical, fruitless act, considering all that I'd just pointed out.
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  • Avatar of DygitalNinja

    DygitalNinja

    [17]Jul 20, 2008
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    Great episode

    Thoughts
    -Did the Aang / Ozai fight make anyone else think of the original Goku/Vegeta battle in DBZ

    - I've never been a shipper, so the last seen did kind of rub me the wrong way. In the first two seasons the Kataang (and Zutara for that matter) stuff was REALLY REALLY in the back round. So far the it seemed more like Aang just had a kinder garden crush of Katara. The final strech of episodes really brought this to the forground and the more it did, the more it just felt like Katara feelings for Aang were mostly platonic, or that even Zuko was a more legitamate possibility it just felt a little forced for Katara to turn Aang down (and pretty harshly) and in the very next scene they have alone together make out with him. This shows emotional honesty has usually...well pretty honest and that wasn't the best example, a more ambgious ending would have worked better.


    -Aang NOT killing Ozai wasn't a cop-out. The whole episode stressed how against his nature murder is, and also that Ozai had to be stopped at all cost. A cop out would have been something like at the end of Spiderman 1 were The Green Goblin murders accidently kills himself after Peter spares his life

    The writers of this show kept Ozai's fate in Aangs hands, and kept his actions true to the character...may have the experiences of hundres of his past lifes to draw from (who all basically told Aang he needed to kill Ozai, b/c they'd all been in the same situation, and the ones like Roku and Koruk who didn't act failed in their duty as the Avatar b/c of it) but he's still a 12 year old boy, I wouldn't have ended that plotline any other way

    -As for the Azula thing, it definalty kept me on the edge of my seat, but as a FAN of this seires, it is kind of lame to see Katara be the one to defeat Azula and not Zuko
    ever since she was introduced we've been waiting for the final show down between them were he kicked her ass. Having Katara do it would almost be like having Sokka be the one to beat Ozai

    -what was the point and bringing up the status of Ursa if the show is gonna end 4 minutes later and never resolve it. if the show had never confirmed what happened to her for even if she was still alive (think Jet) it would have been fine...but Avatar ain't coming back for Book 4. Epilouges are supposed to focus on closure...geezz
    I get why the writers would want to do a final scene with Zuko and Ozai. Zuko's daddy issues have been a big part of this series. It would have been strange to end the show,without that confontation, even if though their stuff together in BLACK SUN was pretty epic.
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  • Avatar of fire_wheels

    fire_wheels

    [18]Jul 20, 2008
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    noo, i meant everyone, heh.

    yea people like Jet and Katara's mother had died, but this was the Ozai vs. Aang fight, so they weren't going to let you speculate what happens, they were going to show you what actually happens til the end. For Jet and Katara's mother's deaths, they would just tell you about it, and not really show you what happened.

    Edited on 07/20/2008 9:28am
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  • Avatar of Falcondude123

    Falcondude123

    [19]Jul 20, 2008
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    How does anybody ever ridicule or critique the final finale of their favorite show?
    I am as big a critic as the next guy, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Am I wierd?? 0.o
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  • Avatar of Ramrom

    Ramrom

    [20]Jul 20, 2008
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    I heavily disagree with the poor ratings on the first page.
    The finale should deserve higher than a A+ or 10/10. This is the greatest way to end the best animated tv show on Earth.
    The makers did a great job. They aimed for the great big showdowns and lots of effects to satisfy THEIR audience which is an audience of the age 6-11. They also aimed to include love relationships such as Katara and Ang, Zuko and Mai etc...
    All the drama was just too satisfying and that's the reason I loved watching every second of it. I couldn't argue with anything the writers included except that we didn't see Zuko find his Mother even though that makes no difference, i would've thought it'd ruin the concept of the ending.
    It ended almost the exact same way I had hoped and I really loved the battles. I thought both the major battles were well made. I didn't think Ozin and Aang's battle was disappointing at all, Aang couldn't do much without the avatar state, I do not blame him for choosing to hide at all. It was a great battle and the way he took away Ozin's firebending was unexpected.... but great!

    So I really loved this finale and couldn't go into detail on every forum I have posted so i'd just outlined what I enjoyed. My little nephews loved it... and so did I!
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