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Zuko's Plot **SPOILERS**

  • Avatar of SapphireStones

    SapphireStones

    [21]Dec 1, 2006
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    lastchancexi wrote:
    :
    Or Zuko made the plan but didn't tell iroh so iroh would look like he realy thought zuko had turned.I heared a saying some were I think it goes"in order to decive your enemy first you must decive your ally" I pretty sure it means if you trick your ally's into thinking you've switch sides it's easier to make your enemy think so.

    This is a terrible, terrible idea. Zuko's redemption isn't complete yet. You'll be much, much happier when Zuko overcomes this huge mistake and earns Katara's love. Ok, so that second part isn't happening and I'm just screwing with you. But Zuko redemption without ever confronting his father? Not happening. He will do it S3, and I'll be in his corner. Oh, and he doesn't need to capture the Avatar. He has his honor back. Meh, sometimes we don't want the things we wish for, sometimes we pay far too high a price for them. I think that applies to Zuko right now.

    I don't think it's such a terrible idea. He can just as easily bring down good ol Sista Zula and gain redemption with Iroh (remember, the Gaang now trusts HIM) who could convince them that Zuko has changed. They'll be reluctant, but they'll let him come with them. And he'll be able to defeat Daddy dearest then. It's more than one way to get all your enemies.

    Gawd, this is Snape betraying Dumbledore all over again.....
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  • Avatar of masterofaeons

    masterofaeons

    [22]Dec 1, 2006
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    What do you mean Snape kills Dumbledore? *tears up*
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  • Avatar of Nahay

    Nahay

    [23]Dec 1, 2006
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    come to think of it now it might be possible that Zuko and Iroh might be acting.



    but something to think about:

    is Azula really that stupid? I mean she is smart, like in the episode of The Chase? She might find out easily if it's fake or not

    Is Zuko really that of a good actor? whats the guilty look on his face at the end of the finale and "I betrayed uncle"?


    honestly, I really don't know what he's thinking about, is it really that important to get back the honor he lost?
    If that's really what he wants, then I'm totally fine if he gets killed by his father..

    it'd be so meaningless if he gets his honors and stuff back, then why don't they just make Zuko a big bad guy in the beggining striaght to the end just like his sister...

    so yeah I think Zuko will be good eventurally, maybe the next whole season will be all about him. and like the season 3 Finale will be Aang defeat Firelord, along with Zuko's?? help..(of course and with Katara, Sakka)
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  • Avatar of lastchancexi

    lastchancexi

    [24]Dec 1, 2006
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    Snape's a smart mage who's actually tricky and clever. He knows how to hide and betray people.

    Zuko's a brash, untricky, unclever, 16 year old who has routinely been outfoxed by his sister since when he was 8 (or younger).
    Hmmm.... Yeah, the two situations are completely the same.

    When Zuko changes in season 3, he'll actually have changed, he's simply not outfoxing Azula here. Do you guys just miss foreshadowing at all, or do you block it from your mind?

    In an English class, you'd fail simply by making this claim, and most english classes allow you to get away with a lot of different claims.
    Edited on 12/01/2006 11:22pm
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  • Avatar of Frilzer

    Frilzer

    [25]Dec 2, 2006
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    OK, this is how my theory is going to go.

    Azula propossed to help zuko get aang so he will have his honor back, and sence thats like the only thing he really cared about, he took it. Sence aang got away (with a hole in his back, by the way.) zuko still felt like he had failed in capturing the avatar. thats why he was talking to azula about still not having the avatar. Azula made him feel good by telling him that everything will be fine and that he will have his honor back.

    NOW! I think that Azula and Zuko are going to go back to the fire nation, probaly to tell the fire lord they have control of Ba sing sa. I bet that they will bring uncle along as a prisoner and i bet that uncle will try to knock some sence into zuko but will fail. Now when they get to the fire nation and when zuko will think everything is going great for him, Azula will stab him in the back by saying that she had completed her task as to capturing Zuko and Iroh.

    Zuko will somehow escape (uncle wont), I dont know how but will, and will end up running into aang and the gang and then they will be all mad at him, kick his butt a little, Zuko will say he can teach aang fire bending, katara will fall for him, sokka will be ready to kill him at any second if he does something suspisous, and all will go well.
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  • Avatar of astrawoid

    astrawoid

    [26]Dec 2, 2006
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    I don't think Zuko's done with his transformation.?? I think he's still in the middle of it and right now he has to go after the things that he thinks is important to him, his honor, his birthright and the love of his father.?? Ever since his banishment, he's been trying to capture the Avatar to regain all that he lost, so for him to suddenly give it up once it's offered to him almost on a platter, how can he refuse??? He's only thought about giving up on getting the Avatar for a very short time in comparison to wanting to/needing to capture him.??

    But Zuko's not done changing.?? The big, real epiphany will happen at some later time.?? Maybe after trying to understand himself better by trying to find out what happened to his mother.?? Or maybe, once they get back to his father.?? His father tells him that to show true loyalty and truly restore his honor he has to kill his traitorous uncle!?? Now wouldn't that be a crazy demand, but I could so see Ozai saying that.?? Azula wouldn't even hesitate and Ozai knows that, but Zuko??? That could be what makes him change his mind about staying on Azula and Ozai's side.??

    Iroh looks genuinely mad and hurt when he's captured and Zuko has that look of did-I-do-the-right-thing at the end of the finale.?? So I don't think Zuko has a grand master plan.?? At least, not yet.??

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  • Avatar of robinhawk77

    robinhawk77

    [27]Dec 2, 2006
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    daygeta19 wrote:
    I totally agree with you on this .


    me too.
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  • Avatar of trishna87

    trishna87

    [28]Dec 2, 2006
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    LMAO

    i know! i love the snape dumbledore allusion
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  • Avatar of lastchancexi

    lastchancexi

    [29]Dec 2, 2006
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    It's an awful allusion. Awful, awful, awful. Those 2 situations are so far from the same it's ridiculous.

    :
    Snape's a smart mage who's actually tricky and clever. He knows how to hide and betray people.

    Zuko's a brash, untricky, unclever, 16 year old who has routinely been outfoxed by his sister since when he was 8 (or younger).

    Zuko gets Aang nearly killed. That is almost certainly not planned.

    I haven't read HP in a long time, but I could definitely see Dumbledore sacrificing himself. WTF are you people supporting this theory thinking?

    "Zuko is perfect, he couldn't make a mistake, ever. He really doesn't want his father's respect, despite hunting the Avatar in exile for about two years before the start of the show? I love Zuko, he would never betray me."

    Now, if you want to go into self-delusion land, I'll willingly oblige. Just wish I knew some of you people in real life so I could place a wager.
    Edited on 12/02/2006 3:59am
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  • Avatar of bdllbo

    bdllbo

    [30]Dec 2, 2006
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    This is a very complicated situation that could go either way with??several clues we could look at. And I mean SEVERAL.

    First, we have Zuko's reaction upon first seeing Aang and his Uncle in collusion. "What are you doing with the Avatar?!?" was Zuko's line to Iroh as he lunges towards Aang when they appear in the crystal cavern. I don't think Zuko can feign that... he was genuinely surprised. For two, nearly three, years he's had "Must get Avatar" drilled into every fiber of his being and his first initial reaction was to go and get him. Upon further discussion with Iroh, that MIGHT have changed.

    Second, the look exchanged between Katara and Zuko. They wanted to continue their conversation. Zuko wanted to be healed physically. Zuko wants someone to talk to, to relate to, etc. that is his own age. Yes, Katara is still the "enemy" but they still want to talk. Do they want a love relationship? I don't know but that look was certainly poignant.

    Three, Iroh and Zuko's hidden conversation we didn't see. Azula leaves Uncle and Zuko alone to get Aang. She starts fighting Aang and Katara alone for several seconds and THEN we see Zuko jump in. Yes, we saw Iroh tell him it's time to choose right. But there is still a segment of time that's missing. Those things being said, we can also go on past behavior of the characters.

    If, IF, it is true that Iroh and Zuko (or maybe just Zuko) is attempting to deceive Azula for whatever gain (to be taught lightning, to get close to his father, etc.) they have done that before. ADMIRAL ZHAO was the first victim of such a plot, but will the writers do it again? Some of us surmised another villain would die in this finale, but everyone lived (though Aang just barely). Did Zuko and Iroh plot to go along with Azula for the time being? They took a huge risk this time as well, because several things could go wrong. Azula could have Iroh killed in captivity. She could kill Zuko, etc.

    Why would Zuko want this? IF Zuko is truly a good person, several reasons. To get close to his father to take his revenge. To have Azula teach him the lightning in order to avenge himself upon her. To wait until the right time to strike back at her (neutral jin, like King Bumi). Or it could be Zuko is having second thoughts. His reality came crashing down on him after just barely having time to get over his spiritual crisis. His family life was drilled into him for years and years and it's hard to give that thought process up.

    Aang's mission is clear, but Zuko's isn't. Which is why Zuko is the most complex and well-thought out character in the entire series.

    Edited on 12/02/2006 4:37am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of bdllbo

    bdllbo

    [31]Dec 2, 2006
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    Three more things to think about.

    First, there is more to Zuko and Katara's conversation than we are privy to. Why after years and years of having "I hate the Fire Nation" tatooed on her forehead did Katara suddenly apologize to Zuko after all he said was "that's something we have in common"? There was a cut scene in between their initial meeting and then Katara explaining she has special water. What else did they say? That look they gave each other, plus their attitudes towards each other, leads me to believe they spoke for more time than we saw or could be allowed in just a 30 minute show.

    Second, Katara says "I thought you said you changed?" and he replies "I DID change!" Azula and Aang have no idea what they are talking about. Another clue as to Zuko's purpose.

    Third, Zuko could have escaped with Iroh, but he chose to confront Azula. He's tired of running, he said. All his family stuff that was drilled into his head, Zuko is clearly tired of dealing with. His life was finally happy, and he wants to confront the one person that will take it away from him. Later on, he reacts badly to the Avatar, but that was just an initial reaction.

    It could either way, but it is certainly interesting that Zuko has many many sides to his behavior that we could look to for answers.
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  • Avatar of goldensage830

    goldensage830

    [32]Dec 2, 2006
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    I heartily agree. They couldn't have the beloved Zuko lost ALL of his character development!

    This series owns.

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  • Avatar of momothelemur

    momothelemur

    [33]Dec 2, 2006
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    bdllbo wrote:
    Three more things to think about. First, there is more to Zuko and Katara's conversation than we are privy to. Why after years and years of having "I hate the Fire Nation" tatooed on her forehead did Katara suddenly apologize to Zuko after all he said was "that's something we have in common"? There was a cut scene in between their initial meeting and then Katara explaining she has special water. What else did they say? That look they gave each other, plus their attitudes towards each other, leads me to believe they spoke for more time than we saw or could be allowed in just a 30 minute show. Second, Katara says "I thought you said you changed?" and he replies "I DID change!" Azula and Aang have no idea what they are talking about. Another clue as to Zuko's purpose. Third, Zuko could have escaped with Iroh, but he chose to confront Azula. He's tired of running, he said. All his family stuff that was drilled into his head, Zuko is clearly tired of dealing with. His life was finally happy, and he wants to confront the one person that will take it away from him. Later on, he reacts badly to the Avatar, but that was just an initial reaction. It could either way, but it is certainly interesting that Zuko has many many sides to his behavior that we could look to for answers.

    Yeah, that does make sense. I bet if or when Zuko betrays Azula, the episode will show flashbacks to the conversations that weren't shown...

    Slightly off-topic, but I loved Aang's death-glare to Zuko when he saw him in that cave with Katara

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  • Avatar of freshdth

    freshdth

    [34]Dec 2, 2006
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    Man o man is this getting funny with the Zuko's plot theory. Lol personally i think that zuko choose the dark path like he did in his dream. Though, he is having regrets about it??and is still trying to learn who he is and what he wants to be. Then the part about his mother trully sheds the truth. Scince he choose the dark path he also choose the path in which his mother needed his help. In the end of his fever after seeing that his mother needed help he awoke, but to find that he had no scar and looked like the avatar. This foreshadows that even though he choose the path of power it would utimately lead to the path of his true awakaning, it will lead to the path of becoming the person he was meant to be.?? pure speculaion?............... you ??decide
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  • Avatar of HazelnX

    HazelnX

    [35]Dec 2, 2006
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    Could happen, I just dont understand how he can f***in side with her damn it she tried to kill him, and Zuko should of known better since hes knows how his sister is.??And obviously if his dad didnt love him before what make him thinks hes gonna love him now.
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  • Avatar of ZukoFan

    ZukoFan

    [36]Dec 2, 2006
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    StarWarsGuru66 wrote:
    ZukoFan wrote:

    I was just recently having a complete meltdown because of... well, everyone who's seen the finale should know perfectly well what I'm talking about.

    But I have an idea... just a little one... tricky... and very possibly not going to happen, but it helps me believe that he's still going to turn around and kick some serious Azula-butt.


    OKAY! This is what I think:

    Zuko and Iroh were left behind and before Azula crashed in, Iroh said he was going to have a 'talk' with Zuko. Then they were interrupted, Azula made her proposal, and went after Aang.... No one knows whether or not Iroh talked to Zuko. WHAT IF it was Iroh's PLAN to have Zuko go with Azula, knowing that it would keep him safe. They devised it to make it look like Zuko was actually the bad guy and have Iroh get arrested - AKA: They both remain in Ba-Sing-Se.

    NOW. That is NOT all, my fellow fanatics... What if Zuko actually proposed this plan to Iroh and it was his plot for Azula to teach??him to make lightning? Like, knowing somewhere in the back of his mind that his father may actually care for him now that he's betrayed everyone he loves, that he can get passed that, calm himself down, and do the whole seperate his chi's [sp?] and make the lightning.


    Anyways - that was just my thought process. My little shred of hope that he isn't as completely wacked out and demonic as his sister.


    Oh. And did anyone notice how the convo in the cave with Iroh and Azula trying to push things on Zuko was exactly like his dream? Where Azula was trying to make Zuko do bad things while Iroh tried to keep him from it? Yeah... I dunno.


    Discuss.

    Or Zuko made the plan but didn't tell iroh so iroh would look like he realy thought zuko had turned.I heared a saying some were?? I think it goes"in order to decive your enemy first you must decive your ally" I pretty sure it means if you trick your ally's into thinking you've switch sides it's easier to make your enemy think so.



    I really like that.. "In order to decieve your enemy, first you must decieve your ally". Very tricky and I like.

    I also like some of the other plots and it's really giving me hope that Zuko hasn't completely snapped. oO;;
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  • Avatar of electricblue18

    electricblue18

    [37]Dec 2, 2006
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    Zuko is going to pull an "Uncle Iroh" on us. Iroh is the Dragon of the West. He wanted to invade Ba Sing Se and defeat the Earth Kingdom. He didn't. It's that simple. He doesn't seem like the evil type, but apparently he used to be if he was going to destroy the Earth Kingdom. He isn't that bad anymore. He knows that they must keep peace and balance. Zuko will do the exact same thing, but with a different scenario of course.
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  • Avatar of ZukoFan

    ZukoFan

    [38]Dec 2, 2006
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    electricblue18 wrote:
    Zuko is going to pull an "Uncle Iroh" on us. Iroh is the Dragon of the West. He wanted to invade Ba Sing Se and defeat the Earth Kingdom. He didn't. It's that simple. He doesn't seem like the evil type, but apparently he used to be if he was going to destroy the Earth Kingdom. He isn't that bad anymore. He knows that they must keep peace and balance. Zuko will do the exact same thing, but with a different scenario of course.


    XD I can see that... And Zuko could be the next Dragon of the West since he can breathe fire, too.
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  • Avatar of superqtpie

    superqtpie

    [39]Dec 2, 2006
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    hey when zuko and azula were talking about how zuko has "restored his honor" did anyone else yell at there tv? i no i did.??i think it was something like "YOU CANT WIN YOUR FATHER'S LOVE! ITS EITHER THERE OR ITS NOT. AND IM SORRY TO SAY ITS NOT AND NEVER WAS!" i also yelled things that i would rather not post. but u get my point. did anyone else do this?
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  • Avatar of ZukoFan

    ZukoFan

    [40]Dec 2, 2006
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    superqtpie wrote:
    hey when zuko and azula were talking about how zuko has "restored his honor" did anyone else yell at there tv? i no i did.??i think it was something like "YOU CANT WIN YOUR FATHER'S LOVE! ITS EITHER THERE OR ITS NOT. AND IM SORRY TO SAY ITS NOT AND NEVER WAS!" i also yelled things that i would rather not post. but u get my point. did anyone else do this?


    O_O;;

    ...Yes. Something along the lines of: "WTF!?! DON'T LISTEN TO HER! SHE'S AN EVIL, CANIVING LITTLE *****!!!! SHE'D RATHER SEE YOU DEAD THAN ON THE THRONE! DON'T BE STUPID!"

    Yeah... oO;;
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