We're moving Forums to the Community pages. Click here for more information and updates.

Avatar: The Last Airbender Forums

Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Zuko and Azula are working together now?

  • Avatar of NoNameLetdown

    NoNameLetdown

    [21]Dec 1, 2006
    • member since: 07/11/05
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 966
    picketposter14 wrote:
    Hello folks!!! Did none of you see the subtle hints that Avatar often gives?? Zuko and Iroh are putting an Azula on Azula!!! First off, Iroh and Zuzu were talking for a little while, which we did not see. Also, Iroh magically seemed to get out of the crystal. Hmm... We also heard Zuko say "I have changed" to Katara while they were fighting. As I've heard, Iroh and Zuko did this to ensure everyone's safety and to gain the trust of Azula. DUH!


    I was thinking something was up when he told that to Katara... though, whats up with his conversation with Azula? That makes you think another perspective
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of lastchancexi

    lastchancexi

    [22]Dec 1, 2006
    • member since: 09/14/05
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 267
    Zuko S3:
    Confronts father. Chooses different destiny than "prince of the fire nation," and sides with Iroh.

    It's going to be tougher than that, but that's going to happen s3.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of lastchancexi

    lastchancexi

    [23]Dec 1, 2006
    • member since: 09/14/05
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 267
    It would be ridiculously lame if Zuko was plotting this all along. It would, however, be awesome if Zuko changed sides during the middle of s3 (which should happen).
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of NoNameLetdown

    NoNameLetdown

    [24]Dec 1, 2006
    • member since: 07/11/05
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 966
    personally, i believe that Zuko will be betrayed again my Azula and from there, run in exile again with his uncle... or try to regain trust with Aang, which wont happen
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of lastchancexi

    lastchancexi

    [25]Dec 1, 2006
    • member since: 09/14/05
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 267
    Maybe. But this is nowhere near as powerful as Zuko choosing his own path without his father or his sister betraying him again. Just my opinion, but I think I can read season 3 pretty well. They've done a lot of good foreshadowing. There is nothing that makes me think Azula is going to betray Zuko and there are multiple lines which indicate Zuko will betray Azula because of his conscience.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of NoNameLetdown

    NoNameLetdown

    [26]Dec 1, 2006
    • member since: 07/11/05
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 966
    maybe betray was the wrong word. But I dont believe Ozai will accept Zuko... Ba Sing Se was captured not by Zuko, but mostly by Azula, and Ozai knows that... or youd think he would. Azula is just leading Zuko to a trap
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [27]Dec 1, 2006
    • member since: 12/10/04
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 808
    Here are the points I raise

    Scenario 1: Scamming the Feeble Princess - Azula has a tendency for big tactics and plans. She's wonderfull meticulous. But she's also full of herself. We see this as such when Long Feng confronts her. But she is marvelously simple. She assumes people are as single-minded as she is. She's remarkably simple to predict, especially if you have the tactical cunning of Iroh. Iroh knows Azula will want to turn them over to Ozai so they can either be publicly exceuted for betrayal or placed in prison where they are no longer factors. They also know Azula will never trust Iroh, and thinks Zuko is easier to manipulate. So Zuko "sides" with Azula to get her guard down. Ba Sing Se is a necessary sacrifice.

    The problems with this theory is that even Iroh knows how dangerous Azula is. Azula could have seriously harmed or killed the Avatar. That would be dangerous.

    Scenario 2: What is it Zuko wants? - The theory that also holds credence is that Zuko still wants his honor and his kingdom. As such, just like before, he would leap, however cautiously, at Azula's offer. Remember that Zuko, especially after this fight, if he thinks about what happens, knows that he can defeat her in a fight. Not only is he much stronger then even Azula thinks, but he can redirect lightning, a technique Azula has only seen with Iroh, and she has no idea Zuko learned it.

    The problems with this theory is it disregards Zuko's attitude in the beginning, and it proves that he really hasn't changed, despite his protest to Katara.


    Now, I have another question for you. Did anyone find that scene with Azula at the end, where she remarks that Ozai need not restore Zuko's honor? Anyone find that odd? Makes me think that Azula plans to quickly eliminate her father. Zuko would be a dangerous trump card in such a situation. Ozai might think nothing of him, but Azula, although she disdains him, will not ignore him in such a situation. With such an ace up her sleeve, she's probably scheming to take the Fire Nation for herself by eliminating Ozai, and either eliminating or making a deal with Zuko.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Jatin10120

    Jatin10120

    [28]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 11/19/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 40
    Ozia will never wants zuko back according to iroh in the episode "the avatar state" Iroh said I have never known my brother to regret anything. it could be azula's plan to throw him in prison.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of CCgirlie

    CCgirlie

    [29]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 11/07/06
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 181
    I'm pretty sure Azula is planning to seize her father's kingdom. Maybe that will be her undoing. As for Iroh and Zuko plotting against her all along, maybe. It would be cool, but I don't think Zuko is capable of that kind of plot, or maybe thats' his new strength, the ability to lie/act.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of SapphireStones

    SapphireStones

    [30]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 05/31/06
    • level: 15
    • rank: Ginsu Knife
    • posts: 2,251
    picketposter14 wrote:
    Hello folks!!! Did none of you see the subtle hints that Avatar often gives?? Zuko and Iroh are putting an Azula on Azula!!! First off, Iroh and Zuzu were talking for a little while, which we did not see. Also, Iroh magically seemed to get out of the crystal. Hmm... We also heard Zuko say "I have changed" to Katara while they were fighting. As I've heard, Iroh and Zuko did this to ensure everyone's safety and to gain the trust of Azula. DUH!

    That's exactly what i talked about in my theory on my blog, except I just said reasons why he hasn't turned to "the dark side". I'm not sure if Iroh knows or not but I am 85% positive that Zuko has a plan. He's been the abused, manipulated prince for two long as it's time for him to turn the tables around, which is what i'm believing he is doing.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [31]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 08/05/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 5,201
    Azula's most likely gonna double cross him. When she was asken him to work together she had he lie voice on.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of freshdth

    freshdth

    [32]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 10/08/05
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 200
    Ahem (relaiting to zuko scince it seems someone from this forum might actualy understand this) " To find peace and understanding in ones self sometimes you must follow all the roads set out in front of you, for you??to actaully learn how to become who you were meant to be"
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [33]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 08/05/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 5,201
    freshdth wrote:
    Ahem (relaiting to zuko scince it seems someone from this forum might actualy understand this) " To find peace and understanding in ones self sometimes you must follow all the roads set out in front of you, for you??to actaully learn how to become who you were meant to be"
    he has a point there. but wouldn't searching for the Avatar be kinda that for him cause he made attempts to be ruthless?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [34]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 08/05/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 5,201
    lastchancexi wrote:
    Maybe. But this is nowhere near as powerful as Zuko choosing his own path without his father or his sister betraying him again. Just my opinion, but I think I can read season 3 pretty well. They've done a lot of good foreshadowing. There is nothing that makes me think Azula is going to betray Zuko and there are multiple lines which indicate Zuko will betray Azula because of his conscience.
    another good point. man there's too many good points on this thread. BTW for some random reason, at the part at the end when he's beatin' himself up a scinario came to mind where Iroh or Katara or Aang or someone say's somethin like "if you really believe this is what you really want, then you can kill me right now" and zuko's all "...........um.....uh......" probubly not gonna happen but i don't know I just wanted to share that.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of sly4me

    sly4me

    [35]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 06/08/05
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 3,668
    his choice is simple. Azula/FN or Iroh/who ever the crap he's with. I want Zuko to go back to the FN and get what's waiting for him....and it's not love or acceptence. Maybe then he'll realize his mistake.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of momster65

    momster65

    [36]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 12/03/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 4

    picketposter14 wrote:
    Hello folks!!! Did none of you see the subtle hints that Avatar often gives?? Zuko and Iroh are putting an Azula on Azula!!! First off, Iroh and Zuzu were talking for a little while, which we did not see. Also, Iroh magically seemed to get out of the crystal. Hmm... We also heard Zuko say "I have changed" to Katara while they were fighting. As I've heard, Iroh and Zuko did this to ensure everyone's safety and to gain the trust of Azula. DUH!

    I dont think what u are saying is true. Because when Iroh saw Zuko cooperate with Azula he got enraged and angry and seemed disappointed in Zuko and his wrong decision. That means that Iroh didn't expect Zuko to make such a decision and help Azula. Also in the end Zuko stated that he betrayed his uncle with a shaky voice. this implies that he really meant it and he is unsure whether??he did the right thing or not. This cannot be a plan from Zuko or if it is Iroh is unaware of it and Zuko isnt so sure of it too.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of lastchancexi

    lastchancexi

    [37]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 09/14/05
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 267
    Of course Zuko's changed, even if he sides with Azula. He understands more of who he is now, he has more control over his emotions and his firebending. He understands how much he wants his father's love, his father's acceptance. He only begins to understand how much his uncle means to him. He thinks more, he's willing to question his identity as prince of the fire nation. He has different reasons for siding with Azula than hunting the Avatar s1, that's how he's changed. I think he's grown, anyway. I need to rewatch this episode for evidence to support my theory, which really should be correct. Meh, my case above wasn't as airtight as I'd have liked it.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of momster65

    momster65

    [38]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 12/03/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 4

    One more thing

    It is possible that Azula is planning to over throw he fire lord; however that would almost take one more season, and they have to wrap everything up in season 3. So i dont think it is going to happen in season 3. They just cant squeeze so many stories in one last season. Many more important things have to happen in last season.

    btw isnt this emoticon cute ??

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of surfnroxx

    surfnroxx

    [39]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 11/24/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 70
    susiequie wrote:
    picketposter14 wrote:
    Hello folks!!! Did none of you see the subtle hints that Avatar often gives?? Zuko and Iroh are putting an Azula on Azula!!! First off, Iroh and Zuzu were talking for a little while, which we did not see. Also, Iroh magically seemed to get out of the crystal. Hmm... We also heard Zuko say "I have changed" to Katara while they were fighting. As I've heard, Iroh and Zuko did this to ensure everyone's safety and to gain the trust of Azula. DUH!
    Finally! Something that makes sense. All the subtle hints were there, the looks (Katara, Uncle Iroh, Aang), the announcemnet from Zuko that he has changed. And yeah Iroh and Zuko were left alone for a bit...plans and strategies could have been made. You know the creators just couldn't let anything be simple, they have to leave room for more angst and drama. lol Azula's a tough chick, intelligent to boot, and since it seems she can easily take over a kingdom, someone will have to play her little game and turn the tables against her. By doing that they will have to gain her trust, dig deep into her psyche then bam! thus beginning the crumbling of the fire lord and his nation. but I guess we shall see how the next book turns out.

    Yes!!! ZUKO is goint to stab AZULA in the back somehow!!!
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kataang4eva081

    kataang4eva081

    [40]Dec 2, 2006
    • member since: 11/06/06
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 1,097

    picketposter14 wrote:
    Hello folks!!! Did none of you see the subtle hints that Avatar often gives?? Zuko and Iroh are putting an Azula on Azula!!! First off, Iroh and Zuzu were talking for a little while, which we did not see. Also, Iroh magically seemed to get out of the crystal. Hmm... We also heard Zuko say "I have changed" to Katara while they were fighting. As I've heard, Iroh and Zuko did this to ensure everyone's safety and to gain the trust of Azula. DUH!

    Yup.

    Either way Zuko is going to get burned for what he chose, even if it truly was only a backstabbing plan against Azula. I got this weird feeling when he helped her that he was going to pay big, maybe even his life, I mean, when you work with the devil you're going to get burned... and we all know that avatar is never how it seems, they set you all up for something big, and when you think something is going to happen BAM it takes a complete left turn and surprises/shocks you...so we will just have to wait and see...

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.