We're moving Forums to the Community pages. Click here for more information and updates.

Avatar: The Last Airbender Forums

Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Ursa's Family Tree

  • Avatar of xRamensx

    xRamensx

    [1]May 10, 2008
    • member since: 03/01/08
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 2,541

    There's something that has been bothering me for awhile. Is Roku really Ursa's actual Grandfather, or could he be her Great-Grandfather, or even her Great-Great-Grandfather.

    Here's why it doesn't make sense:

    Now, we know that Sozin didn't have children until later in life and that's possible because he probably had a young wife (maybe even wives). Azulon could have been born not even that long before Sozin died assuming that his mother was significantly younger than Sozin. Now, Azulon probably had Iroh when in his thirties or so, maybe late twenties. Ozai when he was in his thirties or forties. So, Azulon was in his eighties or nineties when he died, so the math works out in that.

    With Roku.. He married Ta Min when they were about 28 (since that's when he came back from his Avatar training) She was probably the same age as him. Let's assume they had their first child when they were thirty or so. Fast forward to when Roku died, that child would be about forty, and normally someone has a child by then. So, unless Ursa is over 112-years-old, I can't see how that works.

    If Roku had a child late like Sozin, that would make more sense. But the problem with that is, Ta Min is Roku's age, and the normal child-bearing age for women ends at about 50 or so. It is possible that in the Avatarverse, women can have children at an older age, but that's just an assumption; we have no way of knowing that for sure.

    So I'm just wondering; do you think it's possible that Ursa's isn't Roku's exact grand-daughter, but great, or great-great-granddaughter?

    If any of you are math expects, or have some expertise in human reproduction, maybe you can figure this out for me.

    If you can't figure it out scientifically, make up a theory that might make sense.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of DrAvatar

    DrAvatar

    [2]May 10, 2008
    • member since: 12/02/06
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 4,663
    As great as Mike and Bryan are, they definitly should have put more thought into the timeline since there are several inconsistencies. Remember that people in the Avatar world live a lot longer than normal too.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of catgator185

    catgator185

    [3]May 10, 2008
    • member since: 04/27/08
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 236
    It doesn't really make sense, but maybe Mike and Bryan just didn't think about it too deeply. It could be that Roku's children didn't have children until later in life. Ursa still might be too old. Ursa is the granddaughter of Roku because it was stated in TAATF. It doesn't make much sense, but maybe that's just the story.
    Edited on 05/10/2008 9:14pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of DeeDuck33

    DeeDuck33

    [4]May 10, 2008
    • member since: 04/15/08
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 1,198
    Hmmm... Since I'm not such a mathematical person, I never noticed this, but hmmm...

    Also, notice how Kyoshi was 230 years. Even in the Avatar universe where people live abnormally long, that seems too much of a stretch.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of xRamensx

    xRamensx

    [5]May 10, 2008
    • member since: 03/01/08
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 2,541

    DrAvatar wrote:
    As great as Mike and Bryan are, they definitly should have put more thought into the timeline since there are several inconsistencies. Remember that people in the Avatar world live a lot longer than normal too.

    So far, that's only been shown with benders.

    Some people have wondered if Ta Min was a Firebender, which would mean that their children would have a better chance of being Firebenders. And that would back up the Ursa-Firebender theory.

    Ugh.. Plotholes are so annoying..

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of xdemon25

    xdemon25

    [6]May 10, 2008
    • member since: 05/07/08
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 56
    xRamensx wrote:

    DrAvatar wrote:
    As great as Mike and Bryan are, they definitly should have put more thought into the timeline since there are several inconsistencies. Remember that people in the Avatar world live a lot longer than normal too.

    So far, that's only been shown with benders.

    Some people have wondered if Ta Min was a Firebender, which would mean that their children would have a better chance of being Firebenders. And that would back up the Ursa-Firebender theory.

    Ugh.. Plotholes are so annoying..



    They can, but its also fun when you find them.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of JerkBender

    JerkBender

    [7]May 10, 2008
    • member since: 04/01/08
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 160
    Maybe that's something that will be explained when Ursa comes back in the finale. The whole 112 year time change thing is difficult to follow. I can see how Mike and Bryan might have made a mistake.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of tomtitan

    tomtitan

    [8]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 03/01/07
    • level: 19
    • rank: Fall Guy
    • posts: 10,891
    xRamensx wrote:

    DrAvatar wrote:
    As great as Mike and Bryan are, they definitly should have put more thought into the timeline since there are several inconsistencies. Remember that people in the Avatar world live a lot longer than normal too.

    So far, that's only been shown with benders.

    Some people have wondered if Ta Min was a Firebender, which would mean that their children would have a better chance of being Firebenders. And that would back up the Ursa-Firebender theory.

    Ugh.. Plotholes are so annoying..

    No, the Guru was 150 years old and he showed zilch bending abilities. If he could bend he certainly never did.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Sektos

    Sektos

    [9]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 04/12/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,366
    tomtitan wrote:
    xRamensx wrote:

    DrAvatar wrote:
    As great as Mike and Bryan are, they definitly should have put more thought into the timeline since there are several inconsistencies. Remember that people in the Avatar world live a lot longer than normal too.

    So far, that's only been shown with benders.

    Some people have wondered if Ta Min was a Firebender, which would mean that their children would have a better chance of being Firebenders. And that would back up the Ursa-Firebender theory.

    Ugh.. Plotholes are so annoying..

    No, the Guru was 150 years old and he showed zilch bending abilities. If he could bend he certainly never did.


    ROku was ZUko GREAT grandfather, not grandfather

    The Guru is one of those exceptions. Bending is a spiritual force (though with some genetic connections) that works with a persons chi and the chakras they flow through. The Guru had mastered his own chakras, and though he isnt a bender, this prob is reason he has lived for so long. In other martial art shows (croaching tiger etc) being able to master ones Chi enabled ppl with super human abilities such as long age and greater strength and agility- the force in star wars originated from this and like benders they too live far longer than average person

    more power they have longer they live and fitter they are eg Iroh, BUmi, Avatars and Sozin
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of BwayJ

    BwayJ

    [10]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 06/14/05
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 665
    According to AvatarSpirit.net, Sozin was 82 when Azulon was born, so it's possible in this universe for an old man to have children. Assuming Roku and Sozin were about the same age, Roku may have been in his late sixties or about 70 when he died. Perhaps Roku had his child when he was in his 40s-50s. If so, the child would be in its teens or 20s when Roku died. Then, the child could have had Ursa when it was in its 70s or 80s (based on whether Ursa was in her early 40s when she left Zuko, since Ozai is probably in his 40s). Of course, I don't know how AvatarSpirit knows Sozin's age, but this is all just speculation.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Sektos

    Sektos

    [11]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 04/12/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,366
    BwayJ wrote:
    According to AvatarSpirit.net, Sozin was 82 when Azulon was born, so it's possible in this universe for an old man to have children. Assuming Roku and Sozin were about the same age, Roku may have been in his late sixties or about 70 when he died. Perhaps Roku had his child when he was in his 40s-50s. If so, the child would be in its teens or 20s when Roku died. Then, the child could have had Ursa when it was in its 70s or 80s (based on whether Ursa was in her early 40s when she left Zuko, since Ozai is probably in his 40s). Of course, I don't know how AvatarSpirit knows Sozin's age, but this is all just speculation.


    They were the same age said so in FL&AV
    Roku was 58 when he died
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of daveshanFromGMU

    daveshanFromGMU

    [12]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 07/27/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 849
    So let me get this straight, in AtLA, spirits exist as fish, people can bend forces of nature, day and night last for average length at the poles, a comet made of ice, rock, and metal increases the power of fire, the moon somehow only increases waterbender's power when it's full instead of at something like high tide, a navy officer is stupid enough to be a complete jerk to the heir to the throne of his nation, and, yet, Ursa's family tree is what doesn't make sense to you?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of xRamensx

    xRamensx

    [13]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 03/01/08
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 2,541

    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    So let me get this straight, in AtLA, spirits exist as fish, people can bend forces of nature, day and night last for average length at the poles, a comet made of ice, rock, and metal increases the power of fire, the moon somehow only increases waterbender's power when it's full instead of at something like high tide, a navy officer is stupid enough to be a complete jerk to the heir to the throne of his nation, and, yet, Ursa's family tree is what doesn't make sense to you?

    I don't question the pseudo science stuff in Avatar, but when it comes to stuff that should make sense, birth, that's where I start wondering.

    We haven't seen any evidence that reproduction would be any different from real-life reproduction. Sure, they don't talk about it freely, being a kid's show, but just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Obviously.

    I know I'm overthinking this sort of thing, and it's a weird thing to think about, but I'm just trying to make sense of some stuff.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of xRamensx

    xRamensx

    [14]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 03/01/08
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 2,541

    BwayJ wrote:
    According to AvatarSpirit.net, Sozin was 82 when Azulon was born, so it's possible in this universe for an old man to have children. Assuming Roku and Sozin were about the same age, Roku may have been in his late sixties or about 70 when he died. Perhaps Roku had his child when he was in his 40s-50s. If so, the child would be in its teens or 20s when Roku died. Then, the child could have had Ursa when it was in its 70s or 80s (based on whether Ursa was in her early 40s when she left Zuko, since Ozai is probably in his 40s). Of course, I don't know how AvatarSpirit knows Sozin's age, but this is all just speculation.

    In real-life old men can have children. Men can reproduce for the rest of their lives. It's the women who can't have children at an old age.

    Like I said, maybe in the Avatarverse, the child-bearing age for women is older than our's. But we haven't had any evidence if that's true. Sadly because this is a kid's show, I doubt we're going to get any insight into that. At least in the actual show. Maybe somebody could ask Bryke in an interview or something.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of GuerillaMan

    GuerillaMan

    [15]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 04/30/08
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 63
    xRamensx wrote:

    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    So let me get this straight, in AtLA, spirits exist as fish, people can bend forces of nature, day and night last for average length at the poles, a comet made of ice, rock, and metal increases the power of fire, the moon somehow only increases waterbender's power when it's full instead of at something like high tide, a navy officer is stupid enough to be a complete jerk to the heir to the throne of his nation, and, yet, Ursa's family tree is what doesn't make sense to you?

    I don't question the pseudo science stuff in Avatar, but when it comes to stuff that should make sense, birth, that's where I start wondering.

    We haven't seen any evidence that reproduction would be any different from real-life reproduction. Sure, they don't talk about it freely, being a kid's show, but just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Obviously.

    I know I'm overthinking this sort of thing, and it's a weird thing to think about, but I'm just trying to make sense of some stuff.

    Seriously, they do need to work on their logic at Nickelodeon. It isnt pseudo science, comets are made of ice rock and metals, and fire can't exist in space (no oxygen). The only reason comets and fire are associated would be because the comet would burn when passing through the atmosphere. So a space shuttle would in theory make firebenders incredibly strong too.

    PS: I am going to try firbending next time a space shuttle re-enters the atmosphere

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of DeeDuck33

    DeeDuck33

    [16]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 04/15/08
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 1,198
    GuerillaMan wrote:
    xRamensx wrote:

    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    So let me get this straight, in AtLA, spirits exist as fish, people can bend forces of nature, day and night last for average length at the poles, a comet made of ice, rock, and metal increases the power of fire, the moon somehow only increases waterbender's power when it's full instead of at something like high tide, a navy officer is stupid enough to be a complete jerk to the heir to the throne of his nation, and, yet, Ursa's family tree is what doesn't make sense to you?

    I don't question the pseudo science stuff in Avatar, but when it comes to stuff that should make sense, birth, that's where I start wondering.

    We haven't seen any evidence that reproduction would be any different from real-life reproduction. Sure, they don't talk about it freely, being a kid's show, but just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Obviously.

    I know I'm overthinking this sort of thing, and it's a weird thing to think about, but I'm just trying to make sense of some stuff.

    Seriously, they do need to work on their logic at Nickelodeon. It isnt pseudo science, comets are made of ice rock and metals, and fire can't exist in space (no oxygen). The only reason comets and fire are associated would be because the comet would burn when passing through the atmosphere. So a space shuttle would in theory make firebenders incredibly strong too.

    PS: I am going to try firbending next time a space shuttle re-enters the atmosphere


    It wouldn't work if you aren't a firebender to begin with.

    Remember kids, don't play with matches.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of GuerillaMan

    GuerillaMan

    [17]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 04/30/08
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 63
    DeeDuck33 wrote:
    GuerillaMan wrote:
    xRamensx wrote:

    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    So let me get this straight, in AtLA, spirits exist as fish, people can bend forces of nature, day and night last for average length at the poles, a comet made of ice, rock, and metal increases the power of fire, the moon somehow only increases waterbender's power when it's full instead of at something like high tide, a navy officer is stupid enough to be a complete jerk to the heir to the throne of his nation, and, yet, Ursa's family tree is what doesn't make sense to you?

    I don't question the pseudo science stuff in Avatar, but when it comes to stuff that should make sense, birth, that's where I start wondering.

    We haven't seen any evidence that reproduction would be any different from real-life reproduction. Sure, they don't talk about it freely, being a kid's show, but just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Obviously.

    I know I'm overthinking this sort of thing, and it's a weird thing to think about, but I'm just trying to make sense of some stuff.

    Seriously, they do need to work on their logic at Nickelodeon. It isnt pseudo science, comets are made of ice rock and metals, and fire can't exist in space (no oxygen). The only reason comets and fire are associated would be because the comet would burn when passing through the atmosphere. So a space shuttle would in theory make firebenders incredibly strong too.

    PS: I am going to try firbending next time a space shuttle re-enters the atmosphere

    It wouldn't work if you aren't a firebender to begin with. Remember kids, don't play with matches.
    Who says I'm not a firebender?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of xRamensx

    xRamensx

    [18]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 03/01/08
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 2,541
    DeeDuck33 wrote:
    GuerillaMan wrote:
    xRamensx wrote:

    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    So let me get this straight, in AtLA, spirits exist as fish, people can bend forces of nature, day and night last for average length at the poles, a comet made of ice, rock, and metal increases the power of fire, the moon somehow only increases waterbender's power when it's full instead of at something like high tide, a navy officer is stupid enough to be a complete jerk to the heir to the throne of his nation, and, yet, Ursa's family tree is what doesn't make sense to you?

    I don't question the pseudo science stuff in Avatar, but when it comes to stuff that should make sense, birth, that's where I start wondering.

    We haven't seen any evidence that reproduction would be any different from real-life reproduction. Sure, they don't talk about it freely, being a kid's show, but just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Obviously.

    I know I'm overthinking this sort of thing, and it's a weird thing to think about, but I'm just trying to make sense of some stuff.

    Seriously, they do need to work on their logic at Nickelodeon. It isnt pseudo science, comets are made of ice rock and metals, and fire can't exist in space (no oxygen). The only reason comets and fire are associated would be because the comet would burn when passing through the atmosphere. So a space shuttle would in theory make firebenders incredibly strong too.

    PS: I am going to try firbending next time a space shuttle re-enters the atmosphere

    It wouldn't work if you aren't a firebender to begin with. Remember kids, don't play with matches.

    Oh, psh! Matches are the only fun you can have. Ever.

    So, remember kids.. Kill Smokey the Bear and set a forest on fire! That's the only way you can be cool. Ever.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of GuerillaMan

    GuerillaMan

    [19]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 04/30/08
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 63
    xRamensx wrote:
    DeeDuck33 wrote:
    GuerillaMan wrote:
    xRamensx wrote:

    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    So let me get this straight, in AtLA, spirits exist as fish, people can bend forces of nature, day and night last for average length at the poles, a comet made of ice, rock, and metal increases the power of fire, the moon somehow only increases waterbender's power when it's full instead of at something like high tide, a navy officer is stupid enough to be a complete jerk to the heir to the throne of his nation, and, yet, Ursa's family tree is what doesn't make sense to you?

    I don't question the pseudo science stuff in Avatar, but when it comes to stuff that should make sense, birth, that's where I start wondering.

    We haven't seen any evidence that reproduction would be any different from real-life reproduction. Sure, they don't talk about it freely, being a kid's show, but just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Obviously.

    I know I'm overthinking this sort of thing, and it's a weird thing to think about, but I'm just trying to make sense of some stuff.

    Seriously, they do need to work on their logic at Nickelodeon. It isnt pseudo science, comets are made of ice rock and metals, and fire can't exist in space (no oxygen). The only reason comets and fire are associated would be because the comet would burn when passing through the atmosphere. So a space shuttle would in theory make firebenders incredibly strong too.

    PS: I am going to try firbending next time a space shuttle re-enters the atmosphere

    It wouldn't work if you aren't a firebender to begin with. Remember kids, don't play with matches.

    Oh, psh! Matches are the only fun you can have. Ever.

    So, remember kids.. Kill Smokey the Bear and set a forest on fire! That's the only way you can be cool. Ever.

    Down with smokey, yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of DeeDuck33

    DeeDuck33

    [20]May 11, 2008
    • member since: 04/15/08
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 1,198
    GuerillaMan wrote:
    xRamensx wrote:
    DeeDuck33 wrote:
    GuerillaMan wrote:
    xRamensx wrote:

    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    So let me get this straight, in AtLA, spirits exist as fish, people can bend forces of nature, day and night last for average length at the poles, a comet made of ice, rock, and metal increases the power of fire, the moon somehow only increases waterbender's power when it's full instead of at something like high tide, a navy officer is stupid enough to be a complete jerk to the heir to the throne of his nation, and, yet, Ursa's family tree is what doesn't make sense to you?

    I don't question the pseudo science stuff in Avatar, but when it comes to stuff that should make sense, birth, that's where I start wondering.

    We haven't seen any evidence that reproduction would be any different from real-life reproduction. Sure, they don't talk about it freely, being a kid's show, but just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Obviously.

    I know I'm overthinking this sort of thing, and it's a weird thing to think about, but I'm just trying to make sense of some stuff.

    Seriously, they do need to work on their logic at Nickelodeon. It isnt pseudo science, comets are made of ice rock and metals, and fire can't exist in space (no oxygen). The only reason comets and fire are associated would be because the comet would burn when passing through the atmosphere. So a space shuttle would in theory make firebenders incredibly strong too.

    PS: I am going to try firbending next time a space shuttle re-enters the atmosphere

    It wouldn't work if you aren't a firebender to begin with. Remember kids, don't play with matches.

    Oh, psh! Matches are the only fun you can have. Ever.

    So, remember kids.. Kill Smokey the Bear and set a forest on fire! That's the only way you can be cool. Ever.

    Down with smokey, yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Then your fate is sealed! You will end up with a scar just like Zuko's!! /off-topicness

    Question: Is the Avatar world flat or round?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.