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Some minor speculative questions...

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  • Avatar of _mazer_

    _mazer_

    [1]Apr 29, 2008
    • member since: 11/14/07
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    Alright, I couldn't find a thread where this was already discussed, and it doesn't really IMO fit into the "Ask/get an answer" thread, so yeah, i thought I'd create one.

    So, re-watching Book 2 for like the 6th time, and a few questions came to mind:

    How exactly is the Earth Kingdom organized? We have King Bumi, king of Omashu; and we also have The Earth King, king of Ba Sing Se and, going by his title, the entire Earth Kingdom. So are there minor kings or something, such as Bumi, who are held accountable to TEK? Other than Bumi, i mean? Were they all conquered as well?

    Second question: why exactly is Ozai Fire Lord? Yes, Iroh had no heirs and Ursa killed old Grandfather Azulon, but why would Iroh still not be appointed Fire Lord? The no heirs thing was clearly irrelevent as far as Fire Nation politics go judging by Azulon's reaction, and Azulon's murder was to public appearances no different then if he died in his sleep. So again: why is Ozai firelord? Did Iroh give it up out of grief, or was he blackmailed, or what?

    And finally, does anyone think Lu Ten's death awfully convenient for Ozai? I mean, it was clearly the impetus for both Iroh's failure and Ozai's ascension to power, so I'm thinking that perhaps this was more than just coincidence? We never really learn how Lu Ten died, perhaps a bit of 'friendly fire' orchestrated by Ozai?

    I'd love some opinions and discussion!

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  • Avatar of thewerewolfmage

    thewerewolfmage

    [2]Apr 29, 2008
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    I guess with the Earth Kingdom, you have one huge leader, and a leader of every city or colony. Like a governor and mayors. Something like that. (If I have my figureheads correct ^^)

    As for Ozai, I guess Ursa had him sign something, deeming that Ozai would be made Fire Lord instead of Iroh. It makes sense to me at least that he'd have to leave some written instructions, as it is his "wish".

    Lu Ten, bam, that put Ozai on the spot. The man's got a lucky streak it seems.

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  • Avatar of raienbrasa

    raienbrasa

    [3]Apr 29, 2008
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    Pretty sure that somewhere, sometime, it's been said that Iroh didn't have the will to resist Ozai's succession.

    On the subject of the Earth Kingdom, maybe it's like Rome. Basically, a lot of the time, instead of directly controlling a place, they'd have a client king. A local who knows the place, knows the tongue, and was already in line to rule it. Except now, he just keeps things calm and pays Roman taxes. Perhaps that's what Bumi is, a client king.
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  • Avatar of goodgirl528

    goodgirl528

    [4]Apr 29, 2008
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    ^ I am stumped as for what to say.
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  • Avatar of SgtHydra

    SgtHydra

    [5]Apr 29, 2008
    • member since: 03/26/07
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    Spider Pig! Spider Pig!

    Does wha---

    Oh... topic...

    I say the Earth Kingdom is a Fuedal system, with landowners at the top and the peasant class at the bottom. The Landowners pay the Earth King a percentage of their peasant's profits in exchange for not being pwned by him and his mighty bear army.

    Alternately, it could be a city state system with Ba Sing Se as the uber-awesome pwner city state that keeps all others in line.

    Also, it could be just a regular monarchy, with the goveners have the title of "King" instead of govener.

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  • Avatar of speechless8582

    speechless8582

    [6]Apr 29, 2008
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    I think Lu Ten's death was just a coincidence, but a very happy one for Ozai. yeah, it does seem fishy, but how could Ozai possibly make sure the Lu Ten died in battle? The troops had been at battle for a long time before Lu Ten had died, so i dont really see how Ozai could have had anything to do with it.
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  • Avatar of _mazer_

    _mazer_

    [7]Apr 29, 2008
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    Yeah, I agree with the Roman 'client king' deal, pretty much the same thing as the 'regular monarchy' version SgtHydra mentioned.

    Maybe I was a little too ambiguous with my last question; what I am basically asking is: do you think Ozai orchestrated Lu Ten's assassination and then masked it as friendly fire, KIA or whatever? It just seems all a bit too convenient, and I certainly wouldn't put it past him. It would give some added depth to Ozai and Iroh's relationship that could be exploited for the Mr. Hanky-hitting-the-fan finale.
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  • Avatar of _mazer_

    _mazer_

    [8]Apr 29, 2008
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    speechless8582 wrote:
    I think Lu Ten's death was just a coincidence, but a very happy one for Ozai. yeah, it does seem fishy, but how could Ozai possibly make sure the Lu Ten died in battle? The troops had been at battle for a long time before Lu Ten had died, so i dont really see how Ozai could have had anything to do with it.


    Oh, I don't think it'd be too difficult for someone like Ozai. Pay off a CO and have them put LT at the front of the lines and then pull everyone back ala David's solution in the Bible, or pay off a random FN soldier to firepwn him in the back, etc, etc.

    The middle of a huge siege/battle is the perfect place for a bit of treachery.
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  • Avatar of raienbrasa

    raienbrasa

    [9]Apr 29, 2008
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    _mazer_ wrote:
    speechless8582 wrote:
    I think Lu Ten's death was just a coincidence, but a very happy one for Ozai. yeah, it does seem fishy, but how could Ozai possibly make sure the Lu Ten died in battle? The troops had been at battle for a long time before Lu Ten had died, so i dont really see how Ozai could have had anything to do with it.


    Oh, I don't think it'd be too difficult for someone like Ozai. Pay off a CO and have them put LT at the front of the lines and then pull everyone back ala David's solution in the Bible, or pay off a random FN soldier to firepwn him in the back, etc, etc.

    The middle of a huge siege/battle is the perfect place for a bit of treachery.
    lolsrsly. Would be a nice twist if this came true, and give Iroh some fiery passion for pwnage.
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  • Avatar of speechless8582

    speechless8582

    [10]Apr 29, 2008
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    _mazer_ wrote:
    speechless8582 wrote:
    I think Lu Ten's death was just a coincidence, but a very happy one for Ozai. yeah, it does seem fishy, but how could Ozai possibly make sure the Lu Ten died in battle? The troops had been at battle for a long time before Lu Ten had died, so i dont really see how Ozai could have had anything to do with it.
    Oh, I don't think it'd be too difficult for someone like Ozai. Pay off a CO and have them put LT at the front of the lines and then pull everyone back ala David's solution in the Bible, or pay off a random FN soldier to firepwn him in the back, etc, etc. The middle of a huge siege/battle is the perfect place for a bit of treachery.

    But could he do it without Iroh noticing? I'm sure Iroh would be aware of where his son is, and wouldnt put in the front lines. Iroh was leading the battle though, so maybe if he truly was too busy to notice...

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  • Avatar of WiseLad

    WiseLad

    [11]Apr 29, 2008
    • member since: 09/02/07
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    it is most probably something like this


    the true leader until "recent events" was actually the leader of the Dai Li, but everyone thought it was the BSS King
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  • Avatar of raienbrasa

    raienbrasa

    [12]Apr 29, 2008
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    speechless8582 wrote:

    _mazer_ wrote:
    speechless8582 wrote:
    I think Lu Ten's death was just a coincidence, but a very happy one for Ozai. yeah, it does seem fishy, but how could Ozai possibly make sure the Lu Ten died in battle? The troops had been at battle for a long time before Lu Ten had died, so i dont really see how Ozai could have had anything to do with it.
    Oh, I don't think it'd be too difficult for someone like Ozai. Pay off a CO and have them put LT at the front of the lines and then pull everyone back ala David's solution in the Bible, or pay off a random FN soldier to firepwn him in the back, etc, etc. The middle of a huge siege/battle is the perfect place for a bit of treachery.

    But could he do it without Iroh noticing? I'm sure Iroh would be aware of where his son is, and wouldnt put in the front lines. Iroh was leading the battle though, so maybe if he truly was too busy to notice...
    Lu Ten, being royalty AND son of Iroh, might just have wanted to be on the front line.

    Being seen by the troops, owning face with them, is always good.
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  • Avatar of speechless8582

    speechless8582

    [13]Apr 29, 2008
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    raienbrasa wrote:
    speechless8582 wrote:

    _mazer_ wrote:
    speechless8582 wrote:
    I think Lu Ten's death was just a coincidence, but a very happy one for Ozai. yeah, it does seem fishy, but how could Ozai possibly make sure the Lu Ten died in battle? The troops had been at battle for a long time before Lu Ten had died, so i dont really see how Ozai could have had anything to do with it.
    Oh, I don't think it'd be too difficult for someone like Ozai. Pay off a CO and have them put LT at the front of the lines and then pull everyone back ala David's solution in the Bible, or pay off a random FN soldier to firepwn him in the back, etc, etc. The middle of a huge siege/battle is the perfect place for a bit of treachery.

    But could he do it without Iroh noticing? I'm sure Iroh would be aware of where his son is, and wouldnt put in the front lines. Iroh was leading the battle though, so maybe if he truly was too busy to notice...
    Lu Ten, being royalty AND son of Iroh, might just have wanted to be on the front line. Being seen by the troops, owning face with them, is always good.

    I could see that happening, but then it wouldn't be Ozai's fault if Lu Ten died.

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  • Avatar of raienbrasa

    raienbrasa

    [14]Apr 29, 2008
    • member since: 10/30/06
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    speechless8582 wrote:
    raienbrasa wrote:
    speechless8582 wrote:

    _mazer_ wrote:
    speechless8582 wrote:
    I think Lu Ten's death was just a coincidence, but a very happy one for Ozai. yeah, it does seem fishy, but how could Ozai possibly make sure the Lu Ten died in battle? The troops had been at battle for a long time before Lu Ten had died, so i dont really see how Ozai could have had anything to do with it.
    Oh, I don't think it'd be too difficult for someone like Ozai. Pay off a CO and have them put LT at the front of the lines and then pull everyone back ala David's solution in the Bible, or pay off a random FN soldier to firepwn him in the back, etc, etc. The middle of a huge siege/battle is the perfect place for a bit of treachery.

    But could he do it without Iroh noticing? I'm sure Iroh would be aware of where his son is, and wouldnt put in the front lines. Iroh was leading the battle though, so maybe if he truly was too busy to notice...
    Lu Ten, being royalty AND son of Iroh, might just have wanted to be on the front line. Being seen by the troops, owning face with them, is always good.

    I could see that happening, but then it wouldn't be Ozai's fault if Lu Ten died.
    No, no, misunderstand, you do.

    Lu Ten puts himself on the front line, away from Iroh.
    Ozai's henchman, having been told to wait for a time that Lu Ten is away from Iroh, betrays him in the confusion of battle.
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  • Avatar of speechless8582

    speechless8582

    [15]Apr 29, 2008
    • member since: 04/23/08
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    raienbrasa wrote:
    speechless8582 wrote:
    raienbrasa wrote:
    speechless8582 wrote:

    _mazer_ wrote:
    speechless8582 wrote:
    I think Lu Ten's death was just a coincidence, but a very happy one for Ozai. yeah, it does seem fishy, but how could Ozai possibly make sure the Lu Ten died in battle? The troops had been at battle for a long time before Lu Ten had died, so i dont really see how Ozai could have had anything to do with it.
    Oh, I don't think it'd be too difficult for someone like Ozai. Pay off a CO and have them put LT at the front of the lines and then pull everyone back ala David's solution in the Bible, or pay off a random FN soldier to firepwn him in the back, etc, etc. The middle of a huge siege/battle is the perfect place for a bit of treachery.

    But could he do it without Iroh noticing? I'm sure Iroh would be aware of where his son is, and wouldnt put in the front lines. Iroh was leading the battle though, so maybe if he truly was too busy to notice...
    Lu Ten, being royalty AND son of Iroh, might just have wanted to be on the front line. Being seen by the troops, owning face with them, is always good.

    I could see that happening, but then it wouldn't be Ozai's fault if Lu Ten died.
    No, no, misunderstand, you do. Lu Ten puts himself on the front line, away from Iroh. Ozai's henchman, having been told to wait for a time that Lu Ten is away from Iroh, betrays him in the confusion of battle.

    Ah, well i could see that happeneing, and that would be Ozai's fault. XD

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  • Avatar of LordMordor

    LordMordor

    [16]Apr 30, 2008
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    it could certainly be taken either way. Either Lu Ten dies legitimately in battle and Ozai finds himself with a happy stroke of good fortune and takes advantage of it....or Ozai somehow manipulated events to play out as such.

    Either case is possible, though I will admit that tha latter scenario makes for a great plot-twist that would certainly send Iroh into a rage.
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  • Avatar of JRG11

    JRG11

    [17]Apr 30, 2008
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    WiseLad wrote:
    it is most probably something like this the true leader until "recent events" was actually the leader of the Dai Li, but everyone thought it was the BSS King


    hahhahaha impressive diagram.
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  • Avatar of PsychoPass

    PsychoPass

    [18]Apr 30, 2008
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    I believe something along the lines of this is how Azulon died:




    ***SPOILER***
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  • Avatar of avataraang4

    avataraang4

    [19]Apr 30, 2008
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    PsychoPass wrote:
    I believe something along the lines of this is how Azulon died:



    ***SPOILER***


    I think that is how it happened
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