We're moving Forums to the Community pages. Click here for more information and updates.

Avatar: The Last Airbender Forums

Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Ozai should've died. What do you think?

  • Avatar of Teranef

    Teranef

    [1]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 12/02/06
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 228

    This isn't about revenge, but the tone of the series. I have no feelings about getting even, my focus is on continuity in the themes of the show. Think about the effects of the war we've seen in the past 3 seasons.

    The genocides, decimations, and wiping out of the air nomads and the southern waterbenders, the seizing of control over villages and suppressing populations into submission, imprisoning all potential threats, the many prisons holding war prisoners, traitors to Ozai, or those who's crime was only that they bent an element other then fire, vigilantes who've had their families and lives taken away by the fire nation and are thus hell bent on spending the rest of their lives dealing vengeful retribution against anyone of the fire nation, the third-reich-esque regime and the air of domination and superiority existing among the military, and the similar attitude among the civillians who cheer on this domination of other nations, and the propaganda machine that shapes public schools into factories of future soldiers and lovers of war, the families separated by the war for years, the outcast status of anyone fire nation who sees the madness of the war, the mass migrations of refugees who've had everything but their hope destroyed, and often that hope destroyed as well, the refugees who find shelter in the former homes of those even less lucky; the exterminated, the seiges, the destruction, the scarred memories that will be around forever, the desperation of the defending militaries who are so used to war, the towns that were once Earth Kingdom years or decades ago, but are now Fire Nation, the assassins and the terrorists, those violent ambitions that have worked for years or decades to achieve what they need only for their missions to have been a waste in a day's time and in that time they're expected to forget it, the cities that have been driven to conspiracy, brainwashing, treason and corruption to hide the scars of the war, the destruction of cities simply by the presence of Fire Nation cities and factories and the Fire Nation soldiers who have been used to these rights of superiority all their lives, the people who've had family members killed by the fire nation and their murderous vendettas against the guilty party . . . a war of this magnitude is no less then a climate to be adapted to, an atmosphere that fills the day to day life, the tone of a story. Over many episodes over the whole of the series, many dark themes have been discussed. I always felt that, in a kid-friendly way, the show revealed almost all the faces of war with refreshingly realistic darkness.

    The dark themes present in almost the entire show previously was not present in the defeat of the fire lord OR the aftermath. Instead, Aang refuses to sacrifice his spiritual well-being to defeat the fire lord and instead we get a light-hearted light show of magic and fantasy that seems totally out of the blue like the writers just jotted something down on the script at the last minute because they couldn't think of anything more clever. Ozai's fate did not seem to fit with the more realistic themes of the rest of the series, IMO. And following that it seemed like all the problems were automatically solved. After 100 years of war . . . peace in a single day? After 3 generations of dedication and ambition to an epic cause . . . it's forgotten in a matter of hours? Friendship and carefree, perky feelings came far too quickly, creating what came off to me as a cheesy happily ever after.

    In the original post I went into a lot of detail about the lingering effects of the war. Many who had adapted to a life in a war climate would be ill-adapted to peacetime and would attempt to continue the war as they'd been doing all their lives, lest a massive chunk of their lives be wasted and amount to nothing. There'd be loyalists, terrorists, assassins, etc. What of the Zhaos of the Fire Nation Military? What of the Hamas and Jets of the world? The aftermath of a war I see as not one of celebration but one resembling the aftermath of a natural disaster; people trying to find loved ones (and what of war prisoners released from prison with no family or home existing any longer to return to?), healing wounds, etc.

    War is a climate, and the finale's last 8 minutes seemed way to drastic a climate change to adapt to.

    Your thoughts?

    Edited on 07/20/2008 2:11pm
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Jouai

    Jouai

    [2]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/10/06
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 2,216
    Teranef wrote:

    I'd just like to say I feel like smashing my computer onto the asphalt of my street right now because I had written a VERY long post and for some reason the piece of crud went back a page when I tried to type and my enire post was deleted. And no, I didn't press the backspace. So, anyway. this is a shorter, immensely INFERIOR version of my original post. I hate my computer. Moving on;

    This isn't about revenge, but the tone of the series. I have no feelings about getting even, my focus is on continuity in the themes of the show. Think about the effects of the war we've seen in the past 3 seasons.

    The genocides, decimations, and wiping out of the air nomads and the southern waterbenders, the seizing of control over villages and suppressing populations into submission, imprisoning all potential threats, the many prisons holding war prisoners, traitors to Ozai, or those who's crime was only that they bent an element other then fire, vigilantes who've had their families and lives taken away by the fire nation and are thus hell bent on spending the rest of their lives dealing vengeful retribution against anyone of the fire nation, the third-reich-esque regime and the air of domination and superiority existing among the military, and the similar attitude among the civillians who cheer on this domination of other nations, and the propaganda machine that shapes public schools into factories of future soldiers and lovers of war, the families separated by the war for years, the outcast status of anyone fire nation who sees the madness of the war, the mass migrations of refugees who've had everything but their hope destroyed, and often that hope destroyed as well, the refugees who find shelter in the former homes of those even less lucky; the exterminated, the seiges, the destruction, the scarred memories that will be around forever, the desperation of the defending militaries who are so used to war, the towns that were once Earth Kingdom years or decades ago, but are now Fire Nation, the assassins and the terrorists, those violent ambitions that have worked for years or decades to achieve what they need only for their missions to have been a waste in a day's time and in that time they're expected to forget it, the cities that have been driven to conspiracy, brainwashing, treason and corruption to hide the scars of the war, the destruction of cities simply by the presence of Fire Nation cities and factories and the Fire Nation soldiers who have been used to these rights of superiority all their lives, the people who've had family members killed by the fire nation and their murderous vendettas against the guilty party . . . a war of this magnitude is no less then a climate to be adapted to, an atmosphere that fills the day to day life, the tone of a story. Over many episodes over the whole of the series, many dark themes have been discussed. I always felt that, in a kid-friendly way, the show revealed almost all the faces of war with refreshingly realistic darkness.

    The dark themes present in almost the entire show previously was not present in the defeat of the fire lord OR the aftermath. Instead, Aang refuses to sacrifice his spiritual well-being to defeat the fire lord and instead we get a light-hearted light show of magic and fantasy that seems totally out of the blue like the writers just jotted something down on the script at the last minute because they couldn't think of anything more clever. Ozai's fate did not seem to fit with the more realistic themes of the rest of the series, IMO. And following that it seemed like all the problems were automatically solved. After 100 years of war . . . peace in a single day? After 3 generations of dedication and ambition to an epic cause . . . it's forgotten in a matter of hours? Friendship and carefree, perky feelings came far too quickly, creating what came off to me as a cheesy happily ever after.

    In the original post I went into a lot of detail about the lingering effects of the war. Many who had adapted to a life in a war climate would be ill-adapted to peacetime and would attempt to continue the war as they'd been doing all their lives, lest a massive chunk of their lives be wasted and amount to nothing. There'd be loyalists, terrorists, assassins, etc. What of the Zhaos of the Fire Nation Military? What of the Hamas and Jets of the world? The aftermath of a war I see as not one of celebration but one resembling the aftermath of a natural disaster; people trying to find loved ones (and what of war prisoners released from prison with no family or home existing any longer to return to?), healing wounds, etc.

    War is a climate, and the finale's last 8 minutes seemed way to drastic a climate change to adapt to.

    Your thoughts?



    No extra thoughts need be said (on my end, at least), because it's pretty much what I had thought, myself. I'm not saying I'm condoning further violence or anything like that, and in a way it's better for him to live and think about all he'd done during his rule. But being he is/was who/how he is/was, I highly doubt he'll give remorse to it . . . maybe if he saw Ursa again, but who knows? So the decision not to kill him, which clearly was mainly a way to avoid being extra dark, the show (which doesn't make sense, considering, and considering all you'd already listed), was a bit curious indeed.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of qtwanderer

    qtwanderer

    [3]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 9,516
    I knew it was going to end the way it did, the whole take away bending thing. And I must disagree..now Ozai will live in solitude and not be remembered as what he was, hes without power...which he did love, no bending (is aslo another form of power) and seemingly forgotten....he will suffer with his guilt and his resentment will eat at him. Best part is he gets to live and hear about how good of a firelord Zuko is and how happy the FN will be under his rule...it should make Ozai jealous because he will believe that should have been him.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Jouai

    Jouai

    [4]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/10/06
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 2,216

    qtwanderer wrote:
    I knew it was going to end the way it did, the whole take away bending thing. And I must disagree..now Ozai will live in solitude and not be remembered as what he was, hes without power...which he did love, no bending (is aslo another form of power) and seemingly forgotten....he will suffer with his guilt and his resentment will eat at him. Best part is he gets to live and hear about how good of a firelord Zuko is and how happy the FN will be under his rule...it should make Ozai jealous because he will believe that should have been him.

    I'd always known that was how it would end, myself, qt, purely because of its predictability. Most shows, regardless of direct relation or not, generally tend to run along those lines; it's unavoidable.

    However, while I believe he will harbor great abhorrence towards Zuko and his followers, of that I have no doubt, I don't think that Ozai will feel remorse, if at all, because he is too proud. Everything he had enacted throughout his life had been precise, deliberate, and without a look back.

    At most, he will go insane as Azula no doubt has, and live inside his own mind and re-live his "old glory days" until his dying days.

    Edited on 07/20/2008 6:14am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of qtwanderer

    qtwanderer

    [5]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 9,516
    Jouai wrote:
    qtwanderer wrote:
    I knew it was going to end the way it did, the whole take away bending thing. And I must disagree..now Ozai will live in solitude and not be remembered as what he was, hes without power...which he did love, no bending (is aslo another form of power) and seemingly forgotten....he will suffer with his guilt and his resentment will eat at him. Best part is he gets to live and hear about how good of a firelord Zuko is and how happy the FN will be under his rule...it should make Ozai jealous because he will believe that should have been him.


    I'd always known that was how it would end, myself, qt, purely because of its predictability. Most shows, regardless of direct relation or not, generally tend to run along those line; it's unavoidable.

    However, while I believe he will great abhorrence towards Zuko and his followers, of that I have no doubt, I don't think that Ozai will feel remorse, if at all, because he is too proud. Everything he had enacted throughout his life had been precise, deliberate, and without a look back. At most, he will go insane as Azula no doubt has, and live inside his own mind and re-live his "old glory days" until his dying days.
    I would love to see him cut his hair, talk to himself and than roll around on the ground screaming I was hoping his pride would make him suffer since it was mostly aimed at him being someone in control and his family tree, both of which have been taken from him but what you said sounds more realistic and better.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Jouai

    Jouai

    [6]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/10/06
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 2,216
    qtwanderer wrote:
    Jouai wrote:
    qtwanderer wrote:
    I knew it was going to end the way it did, the whole take away bending thing. And I must disagree..now Ozai will live in solitude and not be remembered as what he was, hes without power...which he did love, no bending (is aslo another form of power) and seemingly forgotten....he will suffer with his guilt and his resentment will eat at him. Best part is he gets to live and hear about how good of a firelord Zuko is and how happy the FN will be under his rule...it should make Ozai jealous because he will believe that should have been him.


    I'd always known that was how it would end, myself, qt, purely because of its predictability. Most shows, regardless of direct relation or not, generally tend to run along those line; it's unavoidable.

    However, while I believe he will great abhorrence towards Zuko and his followers, of that I have no doubt, I don't think that Ozai will feel remorse, if at all, because he is too proud. Everything he had enacted throughout his life had been precise, deliberate, and without a look back. At most, he will go insane as Azula no doubt has, and live inside his own mind and re-live his "old glory days" until his dying days.
    I would love to see him cut his hair, talk to himself and than roll around on the ground screaming I was hoping his pride would make him suffer since it was mostly aimed at him being someone in control and his family tree, both of which have been taken from him but what you said sounds more realistic and better.


    LoL thanks, qt. And that would be quite the sight, yea, especially if Zuko ever bothered to go visit him again and wanting to get more answers about Ursa, and then sees that. LoL He'd have the same exact face he had when he walked into Sokka's tent in chapter 16 and saw the blatantly romantic display. LoL
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of WaywardUsername

    WaywardUsername

    [7]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 07/12/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 1,224

    qtwanderer wrote:
    I knew it was going to end the way it did, the whole take away bending thing. And I must disagree..now Ozai will live in solitude and not be remembered as what he was, hes without power...which he did love, no bending (is aslo another form of power) and seemingly forgotten....he will suffer with his guilt and his resentment will eat at him. Best part is he gets to live and hear about how good of a firelord Zuko is and how happy the FN will be under his rule...it should make Ozai jealous because he will believe that should have been him.

    i agree. I don't know if he will suffer any guilt (at least not for a few years) but he will def. be tortured with the fact that he is powerless now. A person with a god-complex like Ozai would rather die than live as a nobody, for him mediocrity is a fate worse than death so it i'm glad he's still alive.

    Now Azula...someone needs to put that loon out of her misery lmao jk

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libraman_92

    libraman_92

    [8]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 08/27/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,972
    Ozaii would rather die when defeated. Aang gave Ozaii an even worser torment than death. He will live his life without Firebending, and Zuko will never love him. They had overthrown him, and now Ozaii lives in shame. He is the disgraced Fire lord who tried to conquer the world. No one will salute him. They will all spit in his face. Ozaii will live his life, but at the same time lose his life's meaning: power. Aang did what was the smartest thing to do: killing Ozaii after being defeated was what Ozaii would want. He wouldn't want to live after being defeated by the Avatar. But now, he lives after being defeated. After he esapes prison, where would he go? He has nobody, and will have nobody, as everyone hates the old Fire Lord. He will go insane without his bending, and spend the rest of his life, of course, like Azula, remembering all the good times, coped with the bad times, and since he can't do anything about it, he'll suffer badly. It'll be worse than death, because the Fire Lord's most prized possesion is his honor. His honor has been tainted, will forever be tainted. Aang gave ozaii a worser punishment than death: he took away his power and honor, which all depended upon his Firebending.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ColtsPenguins

    ColtsPenguins

    [9]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 02/18/07
    • level: 23
    • rank: Close Talker
    • posts: 8,045
    yo ozai should have died because that was the only real way if he did then there would be an end because just because hes in jail dosn't been he can't break out with like king fu and i'm sure their are followers of him who support him and will help him rise back to power because come on someone must have liked him and i'm sure he has illigetment child somewhere in the avatar universe whos just like hi
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libraman_92

    libraman_92

    [10]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 08/27/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,972

    ColtsPenguins wrote:
    yo ozai should have died because that was the only real way if he did then there would be an end because just because hes in jail dosn't been he can't break out with like king fu and i'm sure their are followers of him who support him and will help him rise back to power because come on someone must have liked him and i'm sure he has illigetment child somewhere in the avatar universe whos just like hi

    again, another possible season 4 plot.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Nickbuc

    Nickbuc

    [11]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 07/20/08
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 18
    I agree with Aang every life has a purpose and does not deserve to die
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libraman_92

    libraman_92

    [12]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 08/27/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,972

    Nickbuc wrote:
    I agree with Aang every life has a purpose and does not deserve to die

    i think if they ever did make a season 4 this philosophy would be the reason for his demise

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of evilraven92

    evilraven92

    [13]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 02/03/07
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 133
    I think it probabaly would have changed aang too much if he had killed ozai it would have been a different aang that walked out of the battle this way oazai can do nothing I mean taking away his bending was like taking away his manhood in Ozai's world
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of YuZKidd

    YuZKidd

    [14]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 09/20/05
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 403
    If I were Ozai, I'd wish the Avatar had killed me, because then I would have died with some dignity and not had to suffer the rest of life in a prison cell...

    And I think the ending also made sense because after the century of fighting and violence, don't you think they might want some sort of peace? The war doesn't need to end with more violence...that was the whole point...Especially if Aang would have been destroyed inside for killing someone, this was a good solution...
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of sadist_activst

    sadist_activst

    [15]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 08/02/06
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 1,110
    I liked the ending except that Ozai should of died, it just would have left me with a greater feeling of fullment.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libraman_92

    libraman_92

    [16]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 08/27/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,972

    YuZKidd wrote:
    If I were Ozai, I'd wish the Avatar had killed me, because then I would have died with some dignity and not had to suffer the rest of life in a prison cell... And I think the ending also made sense because after the century of fighting and violence, don't you think they might want some sort of peace? The war doesn't need to end with more violence...that was the whole point...Especially if Aang would have been destroyed inside for killing someone, this was a good solution...

    but ozaii wsnt in the prison cell forever, so aang made it even harder for ozaii ro live peacefully

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of WaywardUsername

    WaywardUsername

    [17]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 07/12/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 1,224
    libraman_92 wrote:

    ColtsPenguins wrote:
    yo ozai should have died because that was the only real way if he did then there would be an end because just because hes in jail dosn't been he can't break out with like king fu and i'm sure their are followers of him who support him and will help him rise back to power because come on someone must have liked him and i'm sure he has illigetment child somewhere in the avatar universe whos just like hi

    again, another possible season 4 plot.

    another possible season 4 plot that sounds uber cliche and would really bring the quality of the show down.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [18]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    tl;dr but I picked up the jist of it. I honestly think that by taking away Ozai's bending, Aang has done something worse to Ozai than killing him. So, it's a win win situation. Aang didn't need to kill someone and Ozai gets something worse than death.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [19]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    ColtsPenguins wrote:
    yo ozai should have died because that was the only real way if he did then there would be an end because just because hes in jail dosn't been he can't break out with like king fu and i'm sure their are followers of him who support him and will help him rise back to power because come on someone must have liked him and i'm sure he has illigetment child somewhere in the avatar universe whos just like hi

    But since he doesn't have firebending anymore he doesn't pose a real threat. The followers also won't support him anymore after Zuko and Aang explain to them what's been happening. Remember in The Headband? Everyone thought the Fire Nation was doing something good and helping the other 3 nations. Now that they know they aren't things will be different. And I'm sure there's no unknown child He doesn't seem like a guy who would take much time out of his day to do the nasty. Ozai being locked in prison with his powers and dignity taken away is probably the worst ending for him. You could tell in the cell that he's been defeated. He barely even moved when Zuko came in. His stance told us everything we needed to know. Fire Lord Ozai is no more.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of DrAvatar

    DrAvatar

    [20]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 12/02/06
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 4,663

    Losing his bending made more sesne to me for several reasons.

    1. Each Avatar gave Aang their own individual advice on how to proceed. Each gave different advice depending on their experiences. I was glad to see Aang find his own way to save the world. I just cant see Aang viciously killing somebody.

    2. The crimes of the fire nation was the very abuse of their power. They used Sozins comet and their firebending powers for evil purposes. Firebending is not bad in itself but Sozin, Azulon, and Ozai all abused their power. To pay for the abuse of hisfirebending he deserved to have it taken away.

    3. Ozai was guily of abusing his son and wrongly attempted to strip away his honor from him. By having Ozai lose his power to the Avatar he also lost his honor. Ozai would probably prefer to die than lose his honor and live in prison for the rest of his life. I see it fitting that he lose his honor instead of his life for what he did to Zuko.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.