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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Ozai and Azula redemptions

  • Avatar of american43

    american43

    [21]Jul 23, 2008
    • member since: 06/22/08
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

    After seeing the finale I found that a majority of people believe that Azula's emotional breakdown showed them that there might be a chance of her becoming a good person if her mother was to return. I think that is a very valid argument that the main reason that she was so cruel was because she felt her mother didn't love her and if Ursa was to return and convince her otherwise not only do I think that she would become sane again but maybe see what she had done was wrong.

    Now here's my harder sell and my belief that Ozai can find redemption in his solitude. I keep thinking back to the Ember Island story that showed when Ursa was still apart of the family that all four of them were happy as a family. In the episode The Beach we're told that when Azula and Zuko were children they would go to the Ember Island every summer and implied that it was a good part of their family memories. But it seems that as soon as Ursa left that everything started to fall apart and go very very bad. Now I'm not here to tell you that Ozai is a nice person he's not and he's done far more bad than good but that doesn't mean that there isn't still good in him. After the end of seson 2 Ozai seemed more than happy to let Zuko come back, and during the eclipse when Zuko tells him that he wasn't the one that shot Aang and that he knew the avatar was still alive Ozai though really angry didn't shun him. Now think about that he more or less lied to his face about killing the Avatar and kept the fact that he strongly felt that Aang was still alive to himself which is a major threat to his plans of winning the war and yet he didn't turn his back on him, it wasn't until Zuko told him that he was going to side with the avatar that Ozai threatened to kill Zuko. It seems to me that he was going to let Zuko get away with lying to him and putting the war in direct jeopardy because I think he wanted to keep his family together.

    Then in the Finale when Zuko is crowned Fire Lord and visits his father in his cell Ozai doesn't really do what we would expect an evil person who hates Zuko would say. Though he's obviously not happy he doesn't seem hateful towards him, if it had been Azula he visits she would have said something like he's a fraud or that he's weak and didn't deserve the be Fire Lord. But with Ozai there was almost and air of acceptance that he was the lagitamite ruler. I've watched the scene many times and I didn't pick up any hate in Ozai's voice just extreme disapointment at how everything turned out that he had all the power in the world but was now a non-bending prisoner. And when Zuko tells him that he was lucky that the Avatar spared his life he didn't get angry about that he just shrugged a little at it. And there mustn't have been much hate for Zuko because he obviously told him where his mother was (Though we aren't let in on the secret ourselves)

    But here is my most powerful reason as to why I think that Ozai was good and still has good in him is that Ursa married him. And she is debatably the most loving and caring characters ever shown on the show, and she loved Ozai enough to be his wife and have his children... doesn't that speak volumes? Now would a character that is so loving marry a monster? No, I think she saw the good in him that she saw in Azula that they were both probably very confused characters. And I think that if Ursa came back into both Ozai's and Azula's lives that they could find some sort of peace. I'm not going to go as far as to say that Ozai would totaly repent his ways and be a part of the Gaang that would never happen but perhaps he'd be willing to accept the directiong that Zuko will take the Nation as an acceptable one.

    That's my two cents on the matter that I think both Ozai and Azula have good in them and CAN find some sort of redemption so what do you think?



    2 cents? this has got to be a quarter AT LEAST! just kidding but yeah i think so to
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  • Avatar of jakeman3025

    jakeman3025

    [22]Jul 23, 2008
    • member since: 11/20/07
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    yea i had the notion that ozai was going to let zuko stay any way after zuko and azula about the avatar lied because he just said get out if you kno what is good for you. ozai has nothing left in him hes slunched over in prison cell suffering from deep depression.
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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [23]Jul 23, 2008
    • member since: 07/23/08
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    I am not sure Ozai can redeem himself. The crimes he perpetrated are unconscionable. However, I do not believe Ozai is inherently evil. No, I think that greed and a lust for power corrupted Ozai. Without the greed and lust corrupting his conscience, I believe it is possible for Ozai to be rehabilitated. Azula, on the other hand, may be able to achieve redemption. Whilst her crimes are great, they are not nearly as bad as Ozai's, Azulon's or Sozin's. How she redeems herself or if she can even regain her sanity is a mystery to me.
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  • Avatar of Undead_Prince

    Undead_Prince

    [24]Jul 24, 2008
    • member since: 07/21/08
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    skye3001 wrote:

    You're right. It's much better for him to permanently disfigure and then banish his son by giving him an impossible task that was, to the fire nation's knowledge, impossible than to show him mercy.

    He could've given him an easier task, like serving as a soldier to the general he disrespected for a year rather than make him hunt for a person who's disappeared for 100 years.

    What Ozai gave Zuko was a task to "restore his honor". How can a Prince and future leader of a nation restore honor by serving as a footstool for some general for a year? No, Ozai showed genuine wisdom in choosing the fate for Zuko.

    First, he gave the Prince all respect possible in this situation, making him commander of his own personal combat unit.

    Then, he sent him on a mission which is at the same time very hard and highly crucial for the Fire Nation, which amounts to a fair amount of respect as well.

    Furthermore, Ozai gave him COMPLETE FREEDOM, so that Zuko would not have to do anything he wouldn't want to (like sacrificing troops, terrorizing civilians etc.) If Zuko was left in a position of power in the Fire Nation, he would have eventually been confronted with the requirement to do something evil (it's an evil empire after all), but Ozai wisely spared him of this.

    Finally, and that's the most important thing I believe, Ozai had Zuko accompanied by one of Fire Nation's greatest generals and firebenders - who is at the same time his loving uncle who had just lost his own son!

    Taken at face value, these actions portray Ozai as a CARING and UNDERSTANDING father.

    Then again, of course, Ozai had done many of those things partly out of selfish reasons. HOWEVER, if he was as heartless a monster as some would believe, it's safe to say he wouldn't have done all of this. He didn't really need Zuko as long as he had Azula, and by his behaviour at the war council and the following Agni Kai Zuko clearly demonstrated he was not cut out to be Fire Lord in Ozai's eyes. Ozai could easily had had him killed for showing disrespect and cowardice, or disinherit and banish him on the spot. Yet, he chose to do all those things I enumerated above; and in the end, Zuko himself admits that it was the best Ozai could do for him.

    I believe Ozai really did not want to destroy his son. He wanted to make him a strong, manipulative leader like himself. After Zuko repeatedly failed him, Ozai still gave him respect and honor, going so far as to forgive his failures and welcome him back with open arms when Zuko finally showed some of the qualities Ozai was looking for. I think the Fire Lord still had some sentimental feeling for Zuko as well, even though it was often clouded by disappointment and disgust. Partly it could be due to Ozai still having fond memories of Ursa, who loved Zuko so much.

    As to the original question. Ozai is open to redemption in a certain way – somewhat like the former Raider Leader in SR, though of course not as pathetic. If he was assured that there was no way he could return to major power (and with the Avatar around, his own bending gone, Zuko the new – and popular – Firelord, and Sozin's comet a 100 years away, there seems to be no chance in hell of that), he would probably be content with living a quiet, contemplative existence. ESPECIALLY if he could somehow make up with Ursa – and judging by her loving nature, and also the fact that in the end Ozai never did anything truly evil to their children, it is possible she'll forgive him.

    Really, both Ozai and Azula have good in them, and both can be saved by love from their family and friends. At the same time, I don't believe they could ever turn fully good – they are both too far gone for that. For instance, it would be unwise to ever give Ozai his bending back – it would immediately rekindle the lust for power in him. Similarly, Azula would probably never be able to learn the Dragons' way of firebending – she is too broken inside to truly understand it.

    P.S. I agree that Ozai and Azula's characters were portrayed in a very realistic, genuine manner. Even though redemption for villains is such a popular trope, in "Avatar" it is hinted at in such a way that only underscores their realism as villains and persons. They are very different from each other, and took defeat differently, but the decisive positive factor for them to finally find peace would be the same – goodness in those who now surround them.

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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [25]Jul 25, 2008
    • member since: 04/24/05
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    *Claps* Wonderfully put.

    I agree with everything that you said, and I think that the way Ozai was portrayed in the very last scene showed his acceptance of what had happened and he had become humbled if ever so slightly. And Ursa is the key to him finding peace and maybe letting go of his darker motivations. And yes absolute redemption is beyond both Azula and Ozai true Ozai has done more evil things but it was from Azula's mind that the near destruction of the Earth Kingdom came from. And neither of them will ever be 'nice' people and curtainly would never be what the 'gaang' would call a friend.

    And I really like how you put who Ozai might be if Ursa came back a very similar version to the Raider Leader would almost be amazing.
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  • Avatar of MauricXe

    MauricXe

    [26]Jul 25, 2008
    • member since: 02/01/04
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    I am not so sure about Ozai.

    I think Ozai has traveled to far down his own road to ever become normal. He is just too evil. The lust for power got to him and I think he would rather die in his jail cell than show his face. Was he happy before he lusted for power? Sure. But I think he showed his true colors when he struck a deal with Ursa to not kill Zuko.

    Azula, well I think some of you are spot on about her. All she needs is a hug from mommy
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