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Opinion on bending classification system

  • Avatar of maddcow29

    maddcow29

    [1]Dec 21, 2006
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    After the last episode of season two i had to go back and watch them all again (seriously who hasn't). Armed with more knowledge of the show and where it is going made me think of some unthought of ideas and theories (corney i know but i have an over active imagination). anyway there seems to be a hierarchy or a classification to the bending abilities of benders and what they could do. from what i've seen of every episode it seems to go like this.....

    level 1
    Regular: fire (red), Earth (dirt & coal), air (move stationary objects- the ball in the airneding soccer game), water (some ice & "ebbs and flows"- formless)

    we have been intro duced to most of these in the first season with hints towards the next level

    level 2
    Master: fire (blue), Earth (gems & metal- harder substances), air (hurricanes, air balls/bubbles - what ever aang has done since he is a prodigy), water (octopus form, water razors, vine bending, ice- advanced)


    we've seen these powers from teachers/people who have been bending for a long time. there also seems to be some level of inner peace/acceptance of ones nature to achieve this level (think jeong jeong the desserter or zuko- very skilled but hasn't acheived the inner peace enough to advance)

    level 3
    "peacefull spirit": fire (lightning), earth ("locate"- episode: the swamp), air ( we haven't seen this because aang hasn't acheived inner peace yet- episode: the guru), water (healing)


    this will probably be the most controversial categorization. the characters in this level have acheived complete oneness with thier being. they are able to tap into the energies of the spiritual world to combine with thier perfect bending skills. very few characters have achieved this (or realize it); azula-doesn't know she is at this level because she doens't know about the spirit world & iroh, katara, the guru(strictly spirital oneness for him)- these characters are aware of the spirit world, it's importance, the need to protect it, and it's power.

    Level 4
    Avatar level: this level is exclusively aang's level. when he accesses the avatar state (willingly or not) he can combine the powers at will.


    we've seen times when he uses two skills at once but there are instances of combo moves. examples: being trapped in the bubble (air+water+spirit), lava(fire and earth -avatar ryoku taking down his temple). i feel that this is the largest untapped area of the show and i can't wait to see more of this.

    allusions & congecture- invisibility (in the air spirit level- look at the hit he lands on zuko with the air person he creates in the last episode. add something else and there you have it.) this theory relies heavely on teh fact theat more airbenders exist, my money is that they went underground and air bend the air drafts under the earth.

    I think this pretty much covers everything and every bender in the show. even some of the non-benders. ty lee would be a fighter who is just at the spirit level since she understand how to block it while mai/jet would be at the mast level.


    what do you think? am i missing something? someone?some power??? i will admit that aang's was teh hardest to quantify/qualify
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  • Avatar of ina300

    ina300

    [2]Dec 21, 2006
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    I think your over simplifying things here. First off, most of the benders on the show don't seem to follow your pattern. Katara could heal before she was able to use advanced water bending abilities. Heck, she was able to heal before she was a master. Likewise masters like Jeong-Jeong and Iroh don't bend blue fire.

    This isn't Naruto were each ability has its own difficulty level. While some moves may be more difficult then others, classifying them just doesn't work for bending.
    Edited on 12/21/2006 7:36pm
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  • Avatar of UGamer08

    UGamer08

    [3]Dec 21, 2006
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    Pretty much. Avatar isn't one of those shows. If you'll also notice, another thing it avoids is that typical RPG crap you see in others. For example a firebender can take on a waterbender.??As a whole, season 1 served to introduce the concept of bending while season 2 explored its applications, hence why at certain times they scame??of as kinda showoff-y. However there are these books (Lost Scrolls or somethin) based on the show that are gonna be coming out that explain bending techniques. Probably wouldn't buy it myself but eh, pretty good find.
    Edited on 12/21/2006 7:59pm
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  • Avatar of maddcow29

    maddcow29

    [4]Dec 22, 2006
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    That's a good point nut classification and a hierarcry are just natural,?? they mention it in the show.?? the thing with katara healing before she was a master is?? agreat point and i guess i'd answer that by saying you don't have to be a level two to jump to level three.?? this isn't like an RPG where if you get enough experience you jump up a level.?? it's more a gauge to see how spritually at peace with yourself you are.?? Katara is that how she was able to reflexivly heal herself,?? she didn't have much control over it till she was a master.?? iroh definetly is but i think all teh bending he has done is intentional.?? he could do blue fire or lightning but he knows it's too destructive so he chooses not too (reading way to much into it but there are plenty of hints for it).?? jeong jeong though is either?? 1) at such a level of spiritual upheaval that he can't acheive lightning, or 2) like iroh refuses to use such power because of it's destructive capabilities.?? either could be true.
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  • Avatar of 70sguygx

    70sguygx

    [5]Dec 22, 2006
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    I thought the blue fire was lightning?
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  • Avatar of UGamer08

    UGamer08

    [6]Dec 22, 2006
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    maddcow29 wrote:
    That's a good point nut classification and a hierarcry are just natural,?? they mention it in the show.?? the thing with katara healing before she was a master is?? agreat point and i guess i'd answer that by saying you don't have to be a level two to jump to level three.?? this isn't like an RPG where if you get enough experience you jump up a level.?? it's more a gauge to see how spritually at peace with yourself you are.?? Katara is that how she was able to reflexivly heal herself,?? she didn't have much control over it till she was a master.?? iroh definetly is but i think all teh bending he has done is intentional.?? he could do blue fire or lightning but he knows it's too destructive so he chooses not too (reading way to much into it but there are plenty of hints for it).?? jeong jeong though is either?? 1) at such a level of spiritual upheaval that he can't acheive lightning, or 2) like iroh refuses to use such power because of it's destructive capabilities.?? either could be true.

    True everything on Earth uses some form of classification, its just that the form your presenting "Level 1 Level 2 stuff" is too generalized to correlate with the show. For the blue fire thing, huh guess it is??really that hard to tell the difference. But no,??if they were the same, they wouldn't have two??different names.??You'know as in they wouldn't call blue flames lightning, they'd just call it well, blue flames.

    Edited on 12/22/2006 9:28am
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  • Avatar of KilalaRose

    KilalaRose

    [7]Dec 22, 2006
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    70sguygx wrote:
    I thought the blue fire was lightning?
    they are two different things. blue fire is just a hotter version of the regular orange fire (if you notice when it's not under manipulation, it cools off to regular fire) and lightning is just lightning. http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/KilalaRose/Avatar/untitled-3.jpg
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  • Avatar of maddcow29

    maddcow29

    [8]Dec 24, 2006
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    i guess i typed "level" for lack of a better term when i was creating this thread.?? now mabye i'd use "specialty" or just plain "skill".?? but there is no denying the difference between the main characters, who generally excell at bending, and the grunts/foot soldiers we've seen on all sides of the war.

    the holes in what i've typed interest me the most and i wanna know what you guys think.?? what could be the most advanced air bending skill??? what are other types of combos of the elements that aang will be able to do, or that we'll see??? will the spirit world enter into the picture in any of the bending scrolls or when aang learns more?

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  • Avatar of UGamer08

    UGamer08

    [9]Dec 24, 2006
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    maddcow29 wrote:

    i guess i typed "level" for lack of a better term when i was creating this thread.?? now mabye i'd use "specialty" or just plain "skill".?? but there is no denying the difference between the main characters, who generally excell at bending, and the grunts/foot soldiers we've seen on all sides of the war.

    the holes in what i've typed interest me the most and i wanna know what you guys think.?? what could be the most advanced air bending skill??? what are other types of combos of the elements that aang will be able to do, or that we'll see??? will the spirit world enter into the picture in any of the bending scrolls or when aang learns more?

    To be perfectly honest, this classification thing is kinda irrelevant to the show at this point. As you pointed out with your example, they just keep jumping around with the bending simply because the dudes are the main characters. Way too many inconsistencies (that's my new word) and inconclusives, like Katara entering Pakku's training in episode 18 and exiting it and being deemed master??in the very beginning of 19. As for Azula's blue flames, they??look??cool, that's a given, and??as the only??female??Firebender (not to mention having??relations??to the most developed prominant character)??portrayed on the show as of yet, they needed to give her something that would distinguish her??from the??100, 000??(not exaggeration) Y-chromosome firebenders we've seen on the show and make her seem especially prodigious.??They're the technicals, that's kinda how it goes down for most shows. Inherently, its not totally dominant nor prevalent, but yeah uh, its takes a big chunk.

    Edited on 12/24/2006 8:17pm
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  • Avatar of RustyMantis216

    RustyMantis216

    [10]Dec 24, 2006
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    I have to say I like your ideas and theories. It's something I've been doing in my head for quite some time. I as well have a very overactive imagination. Here are my thoughts in regards to your initial post:

    Instead of looking at it as a matter of skill or level, I try and look at it this way. Each person has what Kung Fu calls your "dantien" or what Iroh refers to as your sea of chi. This is, indeed, a vessel. Each person has a different sized dantien or sea. This, I believe, is where the seperation of bending ability begins. Some people are just able to gather more chi than others.

    Earth - Initial earthbending consists of lifting rocks and dirt through honing one's chi. As one is able, like you said, to achieve more one-ness with themselves one would be able to bend more complex materials like coal, cement, gems and crystal. When one is able to gather enough chi and focus it to a certain point, one might be able to start bending things like metal. I would think that if Toph were to practice more and continue on the path she is currently on, not a single metal weapon would be able to harm her as long as she was aware. This I think would be as close to "Avatar State" as one could get without actually BEING the Avatar.

    Water - Initial waterbending consists of controlling the push and pull of water and flinging it as a weapon. When one is able to understand waterbending more and is able to gather enough chi, one would be able to alter the density and temperature of the water and bend water into ice, as well as ice in general. The healing properties waterbenders have are only available to women so I think that's just a pleasant bonus. None the less I think this would be considered a fairly advanced technique just because it requires knowledge of the human body. My favorite would be vine, or plant, bending. I think this as well is just a matter of expanding your chi levels to the point where you can bend the small traces of water within the vines to make it move. Again, something that just requires gathering enough energy.

    Fire - Firebending is very similar to waterbending in the aspect that it's more advanced techniques are just one altering the density and temperature of the element again as well as pinpointing the small traces of, in this case, kinetic energy. Blue flames, like those of your stove, are blue due to them being much hotter than the average red-orange flames. This is the result of one gathering enough chi to make the flames that come out of your fist hot enough to change to blue. Iroh explains the process of lightning bending very well when he tries to teach Zuko. To be more precise though, all lightning is, is a raw form of kinetic energy. Kinetic energy very similar to that of fire. Thus, if one was able to quiet themselves enough and gather enough chi, one would be able to generate enough raw kinetic energy to create lightning.

    Air - Air is the most unique of all the elements in the fact that there is no evident additional skills available to the air nomads. Granted air itself is quite a formidable weapon seeing as how it is able to control fire completely. If one recolects, fire needs air to burn. Air is not completely defenseless against water either considering air is pretty much able to blow away anything if given enough strength. However, this does not help that air still hasn't a version of vine, metal or lightning bending of it's own other than maybe smoke and clouds, lol. The only thing I can think of is this:

    [Ba Gua, the form of Kung Fu that is used to airbend, is considered the cosmic or celestial martial art. I think, since Ba Gua derives and draws it's energies from the stars and planets (including our own), making almost a spiraling hourglass shap of energy coming from beneath and above you, why wouldn't it be possible to bend time and space? It is not quite a perfectly sound or finished idea but I really can't think of anything else.]

    None the less my point was that I believe it relies solely on how much chi one can sum up. If one had a rather large dantien then one might be able to bend many different things within their element. However, if you manage to gather a great deal of mediocre benders, like the Fire Nation, for your army then you might not have very many soldiers bending blue fire or lightning .

    As for Azula, I cannot say she is as oblivious as one might think she is. One cannot forget that the Avatars are not the only people able to enter the spirit world. Iroh himself took a trip there. If that is true then he cannot be the only one to ever do so. With Azula being the daughter of a Fire Lord, niece to General Iroh the Dragon of the West and quite an accomplished firebender (we can only guess as to who the two old lady twins are that were teaching Azula lightning bending), it would almost be foolish to think that she is uninformed about the spirit world and true mastery of firebending. She did not get as far as she did on pure luck. Azula is probably one of the most powerful firebenders, third only to Ozai and Iroh.
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  • Avatar of maddcow29

    maddcow29

    [11]Dec 25, 2006
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    yea you definetly put it in much better terms than i did.?? you hit everything exactly.?? i don't like that only women can heal.?? i'm holding out for a male healer simply because all the women in the northern water tribe can aspire to is healers.?? i also saw air progressing from "flinging" it at other people to controling it around oneself (to fly or ride on balls).?? i hope they don't get into bending time and space, that would be extremly weird and eff up the story line.?? i'd personally like to see some sort of invisibility or now that you mention it coming from a stellar chi, mabye a manipulation of gravity.?? wind cann't exist without gravity, it can't flow.?? wind is essentially the earth's gravity pulling the air molecules towards it while spinning (in oversimplified terms).?? it would be cool to see aang battle a fire bender and simply remove all the oxygen from the room or thier general vicinity.??

    where did you learn/hear all this??? what do you think about combos? or even what amy happen in congection with the spirit world?

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  • Avatar of Maylene

    Maylene

    [12]Dec 25, 2006
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    RustyMantis216 wrote:
    As for Azula, I cannot say she is as oblivious as one might think she is. One cannot forget that the Avatars are not the only people able to enter the spirit world. Iroh himself took a trip there. If that is true then he cannot be the only one to ever do so. With Azula being the daughter of a Fire Lord, niece to General Iroh the Dragon of the West and quite an accomplished firebender (we can only guess as to who the two old lady twins are that were teaching Azula lightning bending), it would almost be foolish to think that she is uninformed about the spirit world and true mastery of firebending. She did not get as far as she did on pure luck. Azula is probably one of the most powerful firebenders, third only to Ozai and Iroh.


    I completely agree with you (on everything stated above). ^__^
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  • Avatar of maddcow29

    maddcow29

    [13]Dec 26, 2006
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    i wonder how into the spirit world she has tread. if she did it definetly had different effects on her than iroh's trip on him did. i wonder if it had anything to do with zuko and her mother's death (see "crossroads of destiny"). and i wonder who the hell those old ladies were! just teachers? relatives? both? spirits? ack i want answers so bad!!
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  • Avatar of RustyMantis216

    RustyMantis216

    [14]Dec 29, 2006
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    maddcow29 wrote:

    yea you definetly put it in much better terms than i did. you hit everything exactly. i don't like that only women can heal. i'm holding out for a male healer simply because all the women in the northern water tribe can aspire to is healers. i also saw air progressing from "flinging" it at other people to controling it around oneself (to fly or ride on balls). i hope they don't get into bending time and space, that would be extremly weird and eff up the story line. i'd personally like to see some sort of invisibility or now that you mention it coming from a stellar chi, mabye a manipulation of gravity. wind cann't exist without gravity, it can't flow. wind is essentially the earth's gravity pulling the air molecules towards it while spinning (in oversimplified terms). it would be cool to see aang battle a fire bender and simply remove all the oxygen from the room or thier general vicinity.

    where did you learn/hear all this? what do you think about combos? or even what amy happen in congection with the spirit world?



    Well to answer your last question.......reading.?? I love reading about Kung Fu and where it came from, why it is what it is today and how it does what it does.?? After reading and learning a fair amount about that, then watching Avatar I was in my own little TV heaven, LOL.?? What helped alot with my Avatar info was the fact that I have every episode so far on avi and DVD (one way or another, he he he) and I watch and disect each one way more than I should and these forums.?? It was amazing when I found how closely Avatar runs with Chinese mythology, mysticism and tradition (kung fu).

    As for combos, I think about stuff like that all the time.?? As a matter of fact I'm writting a fan-fic about an air nomad that was friends with Aang back before the Fire Nation attacked.?? The premise of the story will be that his mother's life, while pregnant, was saved by a female Avatar through waterbending healing.?? Through this, the unborn airbender was instilled with just enough spiritual energy to grant him the ability to bend water as well as air.?? The story will go on about Tsing and his gift of bending something other than air, making him the only person to ever bend more than one element other than an Avatar.?? I thought this would be a great story to tell seeing as how he could travel to the North Pole and the swamp areas to learn how to bend water, ice and plants.?? Perhaps he could run into a guru and begin unlocking him chakras to attain an even more formidable force of bending.?? You all let me know what you think.

    Last but not least.....Azula.?? In my mind she is the more sick and twisted of all the villains put together and that her trip to the spirit world, if she's had one (I wouldn't be TOO surprised if she has) must have given her some sort of advantage.?? Perhaps through knowledge or just raw chi for bending.?? Regardless, though, she knows something and I'm not quite sure what.?? I think that she might have learned how to travel to the spirit world from Iroh.
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