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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Joseph Campbell, the Avatar Myth, and the shows women

  • Avatar of Thentwal

    Thentwal

    [1]Jun 29, 2008
    • member since: 01/12/08
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    So about 40 years ago a man by the name of Joseph Campbell proposed the idea that there is only one story. He called it the monomyth. All stories have 3 parts:

    1. A person goes on a journey.

    2. They face trials and tribulations.

    3. They come to a better understanding of there place in the Universe.

    The second part of this is that any hero (hero in the story sense, not the courage sense) needs to go through some fundamental transformation or growth. Obviously Zuko has gone through this. In the Firebending Masters he even gives a line that nearly copies the Campbellian philosophy. Aang went through the acceptance that he is the Avatar and his life will require him to fill that role. Even Sokka has grown as a person.

    But it seems to me that the only female character in the show to really grow is Mai. She has accepted it is okay to care and it is okay to show it. I don't expect Azula to grow as she is the foil for the heroes. But I really expected more growth from Toph and Katara...especially Katara. With everything that has gone on and everything she has faced she is still the same person she always was.

    Thoughts?

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  • Avatar of MaddoKos

    MaddoKos

    [2]Jun 29, 2008
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    Oh thank God! An intelligent topic!

    And I love Joseph Campbell btw.

    That said I really have no idea how to respond.

    Okay, okay, how about this:

    Katara has grown considerably in her skills as a waterbender and...

    I've got nothin'.
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  • Avatar of toosmooth

    toosmooth

    [3]Jun 29, 2008
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    A non-FAIL thread. Congrats.
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  • Avatar of MarryLarry

    MarryLarry

    [4]Jun 29, 2008
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    Character development usually means a character receives a new outlook on life or assumes a new role but their personality doesn't necessarily need to change. Look at Zuko. He's good with a changed attitude but still maintains the same 'I'm-never-happy-but-still-try-to-be' personality.

    That being said, Katara went from Waterbending novice (that's newb to you interwebians) to the Avatar's master between S1 & S2. She also realized she shouldn't be so motherly at the same time Toph developed (not in the physical sense) when she made peace with her parents over-protectiveness.

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  • Avatar of SilverFlames

    SilverFlames

    [5]Jun 29, 2008
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    Hmmm... maybe...just..maybe...there's light at the end of this tunnel of fail.

    (I give this a seal of win.)
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  • Avatar of Star_Dreamer

    Star_Dreamer

    [6]Jun 29, 2008
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    Katara hasn't grown as much or as obviously as Zuko and Aang, but I think some of her personality has changed.

    Like...well, like MarryLarry said, she's not as motherly as she used to be. She's also less trusting and less willing to give people second chances, as we've seen with her reaction after seeing Jet again and with the cold way she acts towards Zuko. Although, this just might be because she feels Zuko deceived her by siding with Azula.

    Overall, I think Katara's a little less trusting towards others. Not to a big time noticeable amount, but...maybe just a bit.
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  • Avatar of SilverFlames

    SilverFlames

    [7]Jun 29, 2008
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    Toph's grown as more to have more faith in her parents and to not hide her feelings all the time.

    Ty-Lee's... hmm... I wanna say that she's matured but... we'll have to see how this betrayal has taught her. Cause It all might've been just a spur of the moment.

    And as Katara, We all must remember, she's been the most one at risk when they were running away from Zuko.

    She was the only one in the whole group (Toph nor Sokka has ever been captured by the enemy.) that was captured. (aang's the Avatar, so in a sense, it's pretty obvious he'll get captured.)
    She was the only one that had something precious taken away from her. (Sokka's losing his boomeraang for that little short time wasn't that bad.)
    She was the only one who Zuko in a sense had actually betrayed.

    She's been through worse then most peeps' in the group, so it shows. She starts to feel less trustful of people, because she's learned that the world is very cruel from a painful experience.
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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [8]Jun 29, 2008
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    Mai grew? I hadn't noticed. I think it's unfair to most of the girls in the show to say that Mai grew more than them. Katara, for example, went from being jealous of Aang's talent in the begining (ex. The Waterbending Scroll) to being proud of him. Katara's ability definately grew. from making little tiny waves to making a huge water wall. Toph is also less "I don't need anybody"-ish. She actually grew in the very 1st time we meet her. She came out of the awsme earthbender closet to her parent in her 1st eppi. If Mai changed, she didn't change as much as them. I'm sure there's more examples but I don't have time to give everyone an evaluation. Oh Ursa! Obedient little wife to traitorous mastermind in one eppi?! That's super growth!!
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  • Avatar of JRG11

    JRG11

    [9]Jun 29, 2008
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    I think by the close of the season Katara's growth will prove more noticeable. She has changed I think. Aang and everyone have taught her how to have fun every once in a while and that she doesn't always have to be the "mother figure"- that it's okay to loosen up. Also I can argue that Katara is by far tougher than she was at the start of the show. Her threat to Zuko is proof that she is a strong person, if someone messes with her she'll fight back and stand up for herself. And while that was true at the beginning, I think it's even more true now.

    I also think that in part there's been little improvement for Katara because there's little room to improve, how would you suggest they make her a better person? She's almost too good in my opinion. And so she can't grow much more.

    I've read the Campbell theory and agree to an extent, but I think it's mostly for the main character not necessarily everyone else. Zuko and Aang are the ones that go through the most and are the heart of the story, so the campbell theory would apply to them above everyone else anyway.

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  • Avatar of toosmooth

    toosmooth

    [10]Jun 29, 2008
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    I have absolutely no idea how to respond to this thread. But it WINs. So...Yeah.
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  • Avatar of masterofaeons

    masterofaeons

    [11]Jun 30, 2008
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    Not to exactly stomp on you for making this thread, but saying that Avatar follows the basic formula of all of other stories is like pointing out that shounen heroes are young, pretty guys that when screaming can summon God-slaying power. This means that Avatar follows a standard of lore that makes it the same as many great and not so great myths. Sure, this formula made Luke Skywalker an interesting character and gave Star Wars a good dose of WIN, but then again Howard The Duck is ripped from DuckWorld, fights aliens and is forced to abandon his homeworld to save Earth. Just because there's a character arc doesn't mean that Avatar was written by Dickens.
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  • Avatar of joeking14

    joeking14

    [12]Jun 30, 2008
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    masterofaeons wrote:
    Not to exactly stomp on you for making this thread, but saying that Avatar follows the basic formula of all of other stories is like pointing out that shounen heroes are young, pretty guys that when screaming can summon God-slaying power. This means that Avatar follows a standard of lore that makes it the same as many great and not so great myths. Sure, this formula made Luke Skywalker an interesting character and gave Star Wars a good dose of WIN, but then again Howard The Duck is ripped from DuckWorld, fights aliens and is forced to abandon his homeworld to save Earth. Just because there's a character arc doesn't mean that Avatar was written by Dickens.

    He didn't say Avatar was any better or worse then any other show he asked our opinion on Avatar following what Joseph Campbell thought a show should do.

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