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Geography of the Solar System

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  • Avatar of arthuroys

    arthuroys

    [1]Oct 1, 2006
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    Something that I've been puzzling over ever since I saw Book 1: Water "Siege of the North".?? How is it that the sun rose and set at the North pole just like it would in the equator??? At the poles of the planet, shouldn't there be a period of 6 months of daylight and 6 months of darkness?

    This is due to the tilt of the earth's axis and it's rotation around the sun.?? If we assume that the Earth on which Aang lives on does not have tilt in its axis, then there could be a regular sunrise and sunset, just like at the equator of the planet.?? However, if this were true, then there would be no seasonal changes - an impossibility in the world of Aang.

    So, my question is this: how is it possible that the sun rose and set during the Siege of the North within a matter of days unless the sun, the moon, and the stars are not really celestial bodies?

    I had always assumed that the celestials bodies in the world of Aang were both physical and spiritual.?? All thoughts welcome.
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  • Avatar of Taang_Forever

    Taang_Forever

    [2]Oct 1, 2006
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    I was thinking that same thing... then I saw the moon disappear when a fish died.
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  • Avatar of sluggmunki_tx

    sluggmunki_tx

    [3]Oct 1, 2006
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    That is strange. I never thought of that. Yeah, if the axis was at a 90 degree angle, there wouldn't be seasons. That could be a mistake. Also a point, remember when Sokka said "I've got midnight sun madness" on The Boy in the Iceberg? How did sunrises and sunsets occur?
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  • Avatar of sluggmunki_tx

    sluggmunki_tx

    [4]Oct 1, 2006
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    Oh, and this should be on the Ask a Question, Get and Answer thread.
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  • Avatar of arthuroys

    arthuroys

    [5]Oct 1, 2006
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    Actually, I put it on that thread as well, but haven't gotten an answer - so I figured I should provide my very important question with more prominence.
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  • Avatar of cjclifford

    cjclifford

    [6]Oct 1, 2006
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    sluggmunki_tx wrote:
    Oh, and this should be on the Ask a Question, Get and Answer thread.


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  • Avatar of CraZSpork

    CraZSpork

    [7]Oct 1, 2006
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    As stated before, the seasons change on Earth based on the tilt of the planet which changes the distance of that part of the planet from the sun. If a planet had no tilt, seasons could also change if the orbit of the planet was not circular but elliptical - thus changing the distance from the sun. With seasons occurring solely by tilt changes, seasons are opposite on the different sides of the pivot point (summer in one hemisphere, winter in the other). With seasons occurring solely by an elliptical orbital, the whole planet would have the same season.

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  • Avatar of arthuroys

    arthuroys

    [8]Oct 1, 2006
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    CraZSpork wrote:

    As stated before, the seasons change on Earth based on the tilt of the planet which changes the distance of that part of the planet from the sun. If a planet had no tilt, seasons could also change if the orbit of the planet was not circular but elliptical - thus changing the distance from the sun. With seasons occurring solely by tilt changes, seasons are opposite on the different sides of the pivot point (summer in one hemisphere, winter in the other). With seasons occurring solely by an elliptical orbital, the whole planet would have the same season.


    Thank you so much! Finally I have a plausible explanation for this and I can get some sleep.
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  • Avatar of Miroku_of_Nite1

    Miroku_of_Nite1

    [9]Oct 2, 2006
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    arthuroys wrote:
    Something that I've been puzzling over ever since I saw Book 1: Water "Siege of the North". How is it that the sun rose and set at the North pole just like it would in the equator?

    At the start of season 1 it could have happened when it was daylight for 6 months, but at the end of the season it could have been right at the mid point in the season where there was day and night, or it could have been at the transition between 6 months of day and night. The idea above this post also works, or the fact the animators forgot.
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  • Avatar of phoenixfirework

    phoenixfirework

    [10]Oct 2, 2006
    • member since: 07/26/05
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    arthuroys wrote:
    Something that I've been puzzling over ever since I saw Book 1: Water "Siege of the North". How is it that the sun rose and set at the North pole just like it would in the equator? At the poles of the planet, shouldn't there be a period of 6 months of daylight and 6 months of darkness?

    This is due to the tilt of the earth's axis and it's rotation around the sun. If we assume that the Earth on which Aang lives on does not have tilt in its axis, then there could be a regular sunrise and sunset, just like at the equator of the planet. However, if this were true, then there would be no seasonal changes - an impossibility in the world of Aang.

    So, my question is this: how is it possible that the sun rose and set during the Siege of the North within a matter of days unless the sun, the moon, and the stars are not really celestial bodies?

    I had always assumed that the celestials bodies in the world of Aang were both physical and spiritual. All thoughts welcome.

    Wow, that's a good point. I never thought of that. It would suck to live at the North Pole with that amount of day and nighttime.?? So, considering spring was only three weeks away, should there have been six months of night or six months of day.
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  • Avatar of Miroku_of_Nite1

    Miroku_of_Nite1

    [11]Oct 2, 2006
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    phoenixfirework wrote:

    Wow, that's a good point. I never thought of that. It would suck to live at the North Pole with that amount of day and nighttime. So, considering spring was only three weeks away, should there have been six months of night or six months of day.


    It is not really that bad, sleeping is a pain though. I spent some time in Barrow, Alaska and from November to January at around 12:50 p.m and you don???t see it again until 11:51 a.m, but from May to August it is daylight all day long, the sun just moves around and sort of sets. If you are not paying attention to the time you can get really screwed up.
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  • Avatar of karatewolfpunk

    karatewolfpunk

    [12]Oct 2, 2006
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    sluggmunki_tx wrote:
    Oh, and this should be on the Ask a Question, Get and Answer thread.


    Actually it depends, because my player boyfriend ( ) said that questions that get into long discussions should have a thread of their own.
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  • Avatar of soccerdawg76

    soccerdawg76

    [13]Oct 2, 2006
    • member since: 07/07/05
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    arthuroys wrote:
    Something that I've been puzzling over ever since I saw Book 1: Water "Siege of the North".?? How is it that the sun rose and set at the North pole just like it would in the equator??? At the poles of the planet, shouldn't there be a period of 6 months of daylight and 6 months of darkness?

    No. Winter Solstice took place several weeks to months before. We can safely assume it's late February-March in this episode. Therefore, that's not true. In the north, from early December to January or February the sun will hardly rise; but it won't be absolute blackout. And not for 6 months. Most of these scenes also take place at night.

    therefore, 5 to 6 hours of sunlight seems VERY reasonable in this episode. It was also sometime around October-November in the series premiere, and the sun on the horizon thing was noticeable, and correct as well.

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  • Avatar of lostage

    lostage

    [14]Oct 2, 2006
    • member since: 08/31/06
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    Things to consider:

    1. The moon is a fish swimming in a pond at the North Pole. If the fish wants the sun to rise as it would at the equator, I think it'd find a way.

    2. Notice during the 2-part winter solstice episodes, no one was wearing coats or any cold weather stuff at all, even though it was supposed to be the middle of winter. In fact, the only places that were cold were the south and north poles.

    Obviously the writers wrote in the natural environmental changes only when it suited them.
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  • Avatar of arthuroys

    arthuroys

    [15]Oct 2, 2006
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    lostage wrote:
    Things to consider:

    1. The moon is a fish swimming in a pond at the North Pole. If the fish wants the sun to rise as it would at the equator, I think it'd find a way.

    2. Notice during the 2-part winter solstice episodes, no one was wearing coats or any cold weather stuff at all, even though it was supposed to be the middle of winter. In fact, the only places that were cold were the south and north poles.

    Obviously the writers wrote in the natural environmental changes only when it suited them.


    Well, despite the fact that my question has already been answered, I'll humor you in your assumptions.??

    First of all, the moon isn't a fish swimming in a pond, it is the fish that is the MOON SPIRIT, and it's supposed to be a spiritual link between the two.?? The moon can't just go swimming in that arctic lagoon and neither can that fish go space exploring.

    Secondly, in that shrine at the North Pole,?? they weren't wearing coats for stated reasons.?? In every other part of the North Pole, everyone was dressed warmly.
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  • Avatar of CraZSpork

    CraZSpork

    [16]Oct 2, 2006
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    arthuroys wrote:
    Secondly, in that shrine at the North Pole, they weren't wearing coats for stated reasons. In every other part of the North Pole, everyone was dressed warmly.



    Although what you say is true, I believe lostage was discussing episodes 107 and 108 not episode 120. Episodes 107 and 108 occur during the winter solstice. The winter solstice is when the earth is farthest from the sun - the peak of winter. Lostage was wondering why the gaang wasn???t wearing winter clothes during this episode if it was the middle of winter. The answer could be simple.

    Regardless of what causes the seasons, the poles of a planet will be colder than the equator of the planet because the light of the sun hits the planet more direct at the equator than at the poles. This is why the equator of Earth is tropical year round. That area receives more direct sunlight. It is also why the poles are cold year round. They receive less direct sunlight. If episodes 107 and 108 occur near the equator, then the climate would be warmer. Remember the gaang was traveling from the South Pole to the North Pole. They would have to cross the equator sometime, probably halfway through the season.

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  • Avatar of BiSheng

    BiSheng

    [17]Oct 3, 2006
    • member since: 09/23/06
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    Another point: On earth the season for the Northern and southern hemisphere are in opposition. Such as right now we are moving into winter in the northern hemisphere and moving into summer in the southern hemisphere. If the seasons were controlled by distance from the sun rather than axial tilt (which, by the way, would be unlikely to cause large season changes) this is not true for the Avatar world.

    But if we are completely off track, I have a question: When Avatar Roku said that they had to stop the commet at the end of summer, which hemisphere did he mean? Maybe the Gaang has more time than we think.

    (Or maybe it's just a TV show, and we need to get a life)
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  • Avatar of lostage

    lostage

    [18]Oct 3, 2006
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    CraZSpork wrote:


    arthuroys wrote:
    Secondly, in that shrine at the North Pole, they weren't wearing coats for stated reasons. In every other part of the North Pole, everyone was dressed warmly.



    Although what you say is true, I believe lostage was discussing episodes 107 and 108 not episode 120. Episodes 107 and 108 occur during the winter solstice. The winter solstice is when the earth is farthest from the sun - the peak of winter. Lostage was wondering why the gaang wasn???t wearing winter clothes during this episode if it was the middle of winter. The answer could be simple.

    Regardless of what causes the seasons, the poles of a planet will be colder than the equator of the planet because the light of the sun hits the planet more direct at the equator than at the poles. This is why the equator of Earth is tropical year round. That area receives more direct sunlight. It is also why the poles are cold year round. They receive less direct sunlight. If episodes 107 and 108 occur near the equator, then the climate would be warmer. Remember the gang was traveling from the South Pole to the North Pole. They would have to cross the equator sometime, probably halfway through the season.


    That was partly what I meant, but I wasn't just talking about the equator. Think about Earth's geography. Virginia, for example, isn't too near the equator, but it's near enough to be warm. Even still, in the winter, a jacket is adviseable. Same goes for Texas, and even more so for more northern states, like Pennslyvania and Michigan.

    These kids were travelling around the world, and not just around the equator, and yet no one wore coats at all (except for at the poles, obviously). Okay, so they might have spent some time directly on the equator, but as they travelled north to the north pole, they should have worn coats, even while still in the Earth Kingdom. You don't have to be in Canada on Earth to experience cold weather, you can still be in Virginia and feel cold.

    Also, if the moon disappears when the fish disappears, then couldn't the fish make the moon fly over the north pole for normal day lengths if it so chose? I mean, we're all sophistocated scientific people, but can it be possible that this world is based off of old pre-Copernicus views of astronomy, especially considering this world comes fully equipped with its very own spirit world?
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  • Avatar of dumbTVnut

    dumbTVnut

    [19]Oct 3, 2006
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    The avatar world is actually a virtual reality simulation, thus anything goes. If anyone questions the nature of something or finds flaws in the physics codes of the simulation the agents come and delete them.
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  • Avatar of arthuroys

    arthuroys

    [20]Oct 3, 2006
    • member since: 10/01/06
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    lostage wrote:
    CraZSpork wrote:


    arthuroys wrote:
    Secondly, in that shrine at the North Pole, they weren't wearing coats for stated reasons. In every other part of the North Pole, everyone was dressed warmly.



    Although what you say is true, I believe lostage was discussing episodes 107 and 108 not episode 120. Episodes 107 and 108 occur during the winter solstice. The winter solstice is when the earth is farthest from the sun - the peak of winter. Lostage was wondering why the gaang wasn???t wearing winter clothes during this episode if it was the middle of winter. The answer could be simple.

    Regardless of what causes the seasons, the poles of a planet will be colder than the equator of the planet because the light of the sun hits the planet more direct at the equator than at the poles. This is why the equator of Earth is tropical year round. That area receives more direct sunlight. It is also why the poles are cold year round. They receive less direct sunlight. If episodes 107 and 108 occur near the equator, then the climate would be warmer. Remember the gang was traveling from the South Pole to the North Pole. They would have to cross the equator sometime, probably halfway through the season.


    That was partly what I meant, but I wasn't just talking about the equator. Think about Earth's geography. Virginia, for example, isn't too near the equator, but it's near enough to be warm. Even still, in the winter, a jacket is adviseable. Same goes for Texas, and even more so for more northern states, like Pennslyvania and Michigan.

    These kids were travelling around the world, and not just around the equator, and yet no one wore coats at all (except for at the poles, obviously). Okay, so they might have spent some time directly on the equator, but as they travelled north to the north pole, they should have worn coats, even while still in the Earth Kingdom. You don't have to be in Canada on Earth to experience cold weather, you can still be in Virginia and feel cold.

    Also, if the moon disappears when the fish disappears, then couldn't the fish make the moon fly over the north pole for normal day lengths if it so chose? I mean, we're all sophistocated scientific people, but can it be possible that this world is based off of old pre-Copernicus views of astronomy, especially considering this world comes fully equipped with its very own spirit world?


    Well, although it might have been possible for the moon spirit to do something like that, it would probably upset the balance of power in the spirit world, and there would be consequences for it.
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