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Azula: Usurper of the Throne? (spoiler warning)

  • Avatar of Runty_Grunty

    Runty_Grunty

    [1]Jun 2, 2006
    • member since: 05/18/05
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    I've had a rather unsettling feeling that Azula has been scheming to take the throne of the Fire Nation ever since she was a child (you can see she's set on it during Zuko Alone). I've even come up with a rather nasty theory that she has been taking steps to bring herself closer to such a goal. I'll post it here. (WARNING: contains massive spoilers!)

    I'm led to believe that Azula has been systematically eliminating members of the royal family who stand in her way. First, she took out Fire Lord Azulon, and judging from the circumstances, I think she was also planning on pinning the murder on Zuko to take him out of the picture (she did have Zuko's knife, after all). Unfortunately, Ursa catches on, and takes the blame for Azulon's murder instead of Zuko (what happened to Ursa is up to debate). After Azulon's death, Azula rigs it so that Ozai becomes the next Fire Lord instead of Iroh, so she'd have a chance at the throne. Unfortunately, Zuko would still be in her way, since he was firstborn (despite Ozai detesting him) and rightfully next in line for the throne.

    I'll bet Azula was waiting for a good moment to take Zuko out of the picture, but had her problem taken care of (mostly) by Ozai during the Agni Kai. With Zuko banished and denied his birthright, the only person who would be left in Azula's way would be Iroh. If Ozai were to die and Iroh were still alive, he'd be next in line for the throne. If Iroh were dead, however, Azula would be next in line for the throne.

    And now that Iroh is either dying or dead, Azula has no more competition for the throne (since Zuko has no right to the throne as an exile). The only person she'd have to eliminate now is Ozai. Of course, she'll have to wait for the right moment to strike, so as not to cast suspicion upon herself.

    There, how does that sound? Anyone wish to debate on this?

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  • Avatar of sly4me

    sly4me

    [2]Jun 2, 2006
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    I can think of someone who will debate you on this, but it's not me .
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  • Avatar of tvgeek3

    tvgeek3

    [3]Jun 2, 2006
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    It's a very well thought out theory but it seems almost impossible for an 8 year old to murder her grandfather, my belief of that is that Ursa killed Azulon her self. Obviously Azula's had designs on her brother's throne and was pleased at his banishment.

    I don't believe Azula will kill her father for the throne; she loves her father and besides with Zuko banished and Iroh considered a traitor she'll become the next ruler. Yes, Azula was a twisted child and still has problems but I don't believe even she's capible of killing family memebers, at such a young age, to take the throne.

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  • Avatar of Runty_Grunty

    Runty_Grunty

    [4]Jun 2, 2006
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    Sure, she'll get the throne if she waits, but I don't think she'll want to wait. She just doesn't seem like the type to be patient for that sort of thing.
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  • Avatar of Magicalboy

    Magicalboy

    [5]Jun 2, 2006
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    maybe when Azulon was sleeping she killed him
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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [6]Jun 2, 2006
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    sly4me wrote:
    I can think of someone who will debate you on this, but it's not me .

    That would be me.

    We've never seen Azula do anything against her father. When Ozai became Fire Lord she was extremely happy for him. Not to mention that her entire reason for tracking down Zuko is because it's what Ozai wanted her to do. Given she likes making Zuko feel bad but it was still a mission. If anything Zuko Alone showed us that Azula wants her side of the family in power not just herself.

    Retort?

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  • Avatar of Runty_Grunty

    Runty_Grunty

    [7]Jun 2, 2006
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    You've seen how good she is at acting; look how she duped Zuko in The Avatar State. If she could dupe Zuko like that (who believes "Azula always lies"), she could easily dupe her father. As for Azula obeying her father's orders, she's probably doing that so he'll trust her. Then, she'll probably backstab Ozai when he's not expecting it.

    That's my retort.
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  • Avatar of Spiffyonline

    Spiffyonline

    [8]Jun 2, 2006
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    Runty_Grunty wrote:

    I've had a rather unsettling feeling that Azula has been scheming to take the throne of the Fire Nation ever since she was a child (you can see she's set on it during Zuko Alone). I've even come up with a rather nasty theory that she has been taking steps to bring herself closer to such a goal. I'll post it here. (WARNING: contains massive spoilers!)

    I'm led to believe that Azula has been systematically eliminating members of the royal family who stand in her way. First, she took out Fire Lord Azulon, and judging from the circumstances, I think she was also planning on pinning the murder on Zuko to take him out of the picture (she did have Zuko's knife, after all). Unfortunately, Ursa catches on, and takes the blame for Azulon's murder instead of Zuko (what happened to Ursa is up to debate). After Azulon's death, Azula rigs it so that Ozai becomes the next Fire Lord instead of Iroh, so she'd have a chance at the throne. Unfortunately, Zuko would still be in her way, since he was firstborn (despite Ozai detesting him) and rightfully next in line for the throne.

    I'll bet Azula was waiting for a good moment to take Zuko out of the picture, but had her problem taken care of (mostly) by Ozai during the Agni Kai. With Zuko banished and denied his birthright, the only person who would be left in Azula's way would be Iroh. If Ozai were to die and Iroh were still alive, he'd be next in line for the throne. If Iroh were dead, however, Azula would be next in line for the throne.

    And now that Iroh is either dying or dead, Azula has no more competition for the throne (since Zuko has no right to the throne as an exile). The only person she'd have to eliminate now is Ozai. Of course, she'll have to wait for the right moment to strike, so as not to cast suspicion upon herself.

    I was speculating this, as it would be a perfect shocker for the group??to run into the Fire Lord's throne room and have Fire Lord Azula sitting there. She is quite powerful, and I don't think it would be hard for her to do, as she betray's with no regret.

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  • Avatar of Spiffyonline

    Spiffyonline

    [9]Jun 2, 2006
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    Runty_Grunty wrote:

    I've had a rather unsettling feeling that Azula has been scheming to take the throne of the Fire Nation ever since she was a child (you can see she's set on it during Zuko Alone). I've even come up with a rather nasty theory that she has been taking steps to bring herself closer to such a goal. I'll post it here. (WARNING: contains massive spoilers!)

    I'm led to believe that Azula has been systematically eliminating members of the royal family who stand in her way. First, she took out Fire Lord Azulon, and judging from the circumstances, I think she was also planning on pinning the murder on Zuko to take him out of the picture (she did have Zuko's knife, after all). Unfortunately, Ursa catches on, and takes the blame for Azulon's murder instead of Zuko (what happened to Ursa is up to debate). After Azulon's death, Azula rigs it so that Ozai becomes the next Fire Lord instead of Iroh, so she'd have a chance at the throne. Unfortunately, Zuko would still be in her way, since he was firstborn (despite Ozai detesting him) and rightfully next in line for the throne.

    I'll bet Azula was waiting for a good moment to take Zuko out of the picture, but had her problem taken care of (mostly) by Ozai during the Agni Kai. With Zuko banished and denied his birthright, the only person who would be left in Azula's way would be Iroh. If Ozai were to die and Iroh were still alive, he'd be next in line for the throne. If Iroh were dead, however, Azula would be next in line for the throne.

    And now that Iroh is either dying or dead, Azula has no more competition for the throne (since Zuko has no right to the throne as an exile). The only person she'd have to eliminate now is Ozai. Of course, she'll have to wait for the right moment to strike, so as not to cast suspicion upon herself.

    I was speculating this, as it would be a perfect shocker for the group??to run into the Fire Lord's throne room and have Fire Lord Azula sitting there. She is quite powerful, and I don't think it would be hard for her to do, as she betray's with no regret.

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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [10]Jun 2, 2006
    • member since: 04/24/05
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    Runty_Grunty wrote:
    You've seen how good she is at acting; look how she duped Zuko in The Avatar State. If she could dupe Zuko like that (who believes "Azula always lies"), she could easily dupe her father. As for Azula obeying her father's orders, she's probably doing that so he'll trust her. Then, she'll probably backstab Ozai when he's not expecting it. That's my retort.

    OK my turn. Zuko wanted to believe Azula in this case he was too blinded by his hope to see the obvious truth that she was lying. You forget that Iroh knew Azula was full of it and she wasn't that good of a lier.

    But till we see anything that says she hates her father or wants to steal the throne then I say that the idea of??Azula wanting to overthrow her father??is a basely acusation.

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  • Avatar of tvgeek3

    tvgeek3

    [11]Jun 2, 2006
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    In response to ISpeakTheTruth and Runty_Grunty:

    Azula is a good actor but the only reason Zuko believed her is because he wanted to.?? Hope (if you will) blinded Zuko, and she knew it would.?? Azula is skilled at playing to people's weaknesses, she knew how to use the thing Zuko wants the most agianst him.

    Iroh knew because the "attack," if you will, was not aimed at him, that was Azula's flaw.?? Iroh saw through her lies because: one, he knows Ozai too well to believe he'd regret anything, two: he knew Azula too well to believe she'd be kind or be happy about the fact that Zuko's returning which would once again bring her to second for the throne.

    The bottom line is Azula is skilled at manipulating people using their weaknesses and fears and playing on their emotions.


    Azula will not backstab her father.?? Yes, Azula will get impatient for power but I don't believe that will bring her to kill Ozai.?? You saw in Zuko Alone that she pushed for her family branch to be in power not her personaly.?? Never once during the episode did she state that she wanted someone to die because she wanted power.

    When she said that if Iroh didn't return from the war than Ozai would become Fire Lord she had full knowledge of the fact that that would put Zuko as first in line to assume the throne.?? Azula loves power like her father but she wouldn't kill Ozai for it (maybe Zuko or Iroh).????

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  • Avatar of U4ric

    U4ric

    [12]Jun 2, 2006
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    Just as we may have not seen Azula directly voice a desire to have the throne,??I have not been convinced there has been evidence of her great love for her father.??I have seen her love for his attention and praise though. This isn't to say she doesn't necessarily love Ozai, just that it is not an impossibility that she wants the power for herself.

    Of course when she was promoting her branch of the family as ascending the throne this put Zuko 1st in line, but she also saw that her father wasn't 1st and yet he acquired the throne (how - we have yet to be told), why couldn't she? Even if Ozai wasn't supposed to sacrifice Zuko (as Azula stated) she clearly was trying to get Zuko to think so - possibly in an attempt to get him to leave or otherwise diminish him so that later she could show how much more worthy she was as a leader.

    Azula also could have planted the seeds with Ozai that Zuko was the reason Ursa left(or died)??and thus create greater friction between Ozai and Zuko.

    Of course this is all conjecture, I just do not see where it is so clear cut that Azula would not consider taking the throne for herself. Although I do think she would not be so obvious as to take the throne directly unless she was able?? to work it so that it looked as though Iroh or Zuko were the instigators. She appears to be a fine manipulator and has an understanding that some PR has to be done in order for the people to stay behind her strategy.

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  • Avatar of bdllbo

    bdllbo

    [13]Jan 9, 2007
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    I have no doubt that Azula has her eyes on the throne already... like father, like daughter, plain and simple.
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  • Avatar of katrah88

    katrah88

    [14]Jan 9, 2007
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    Well, I don't believe Azula would ever kill Ozai and I'm also a firm believe that she does what to see her family line rule as Fire Lord. However, I do believe that she would deem Zuko incompetent of such an honor. Whether or not she would take him out herself, or find pleasure in him being denied of his birthright I can't be to sure. But, I could see her allowing Zuko to still go through and accept his birthright, despite her real thoughts of him doing so, only so she could use her mind games in attempt to make Zuko a puppet so she could have say of what goes on in the FN. Much like Long Feng was to the Earth King. Now if Zuko was able to see through her trickery and confront her I could see her trying to give him the axe or even using more mind games with his staff to turn on him. Resulting in her gaining the throne for herself.
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  • Avatar of earthqueenazula

    earthqueenazula

    [15]Jan 9, 2007
    • member since: 12/11/06
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    Runty_Grunty wrote:

    I've had a rather unsettling feeling that Azula has been scheming to take the throne of the Fire Nation ever since she was a child (you can see she's set on it during Zuko Alone). I've even come up with a rather nasty theory that she has been taking steps to bring herself closer to such a goal. I'll post it here. (WARNING: contains massive spoilers!)

    I'm led to believe that Azula has been systematically eliminating members of the royal family who stand in her way. First, she took out Fire Lord Azulon, and judging from the circumstances, I think she was also planning on pinning the murder on Zuko to take him out of the picture (she did have Zuko's knife, after all). Unfortunately, Ursa catches on, and takes the blame for Azulon's murder instead of Zuko (what happened to Ursa is up to debate). After Azulon's death, Azula rigs it so that Ozai becomes the next Fire Lord instead of Iroh, so she'd have a chance at the throne. Unfortunately, Zuko would still be in her way, since he was firstborn (despite Ozai detesting him) and rightfully next in line for the throne.

    I'll bet Azula was waiting for a good moment to take Zuko out of the picture, but had her problem taken care of (mostly) by Ozai during the Agni Kai. With Zuko banished and denied his birthright, the only person who would be left in Azula's way would be Iroh. If Ozai were to die and Iroh were still alive, he'd be next in line for the throne. If Iroh were dead, however, Azula would be next in line for the throne.

    And now that Iroh is either dying or dead, Azula has no more competition for the throne (since Zuko has no right to the throne as an exile). The only person she'd have to eliminate now is Ozai. Of course, she'll have to wait for the right moment to strike, so as not to cast suspicion upon herself.

    There, how does that sound? Anyone wish to debate on this?

    I too have seen these signs, and have already given my take on azula taking over the fire nation in my other thread which i dont know how to link up but its called "azula invading the fire nation". but back to this topic, it also seems that noone of the fire nation suspected foul play (granted our knowledge is from zuko's POV thus limited to what he's seen, maybe next time we might see it from azula's or ursa's perspective). so it is quite possible azula had maybe manipulated??Azulon??into rewriting his will (manipulation is her specialty)??to revoke iroh's birthright and then killed him in a fashion to appear it was natural.

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  • Avatar of Moxey15

    Moxey15

    [16]Jan 10, 2007
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    She said that??"I has been planning this day for a long time"? what about the day has she been planning because in the episode the Guru she only came up with the idea to take over Ba Sing Se
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